Retired Rear Admiral Danelle Barrett took her 30 years of military experience and put them into her book Rock the Boat. In her book, she talks about the lessons she has learned from her military career while also including real stories from her time in the military. I enjoyed getting a chance to have her as a guest on the Women of the Military podcast where we talked about her journey to the Navy. How she balanced her responsibilities in the military and as a mom. Along with some of the highlights of her career. And of course pieces of advice to help you in your career or decision to serve.
Thank you to our sponsors:
Grunt Style is an American Veteran-owned and operated company that prides itself in patriotic spirit, with the motto Pride in Self, Military, and Country. Grunt Style makes high-quality clothing, with patriotic themes that wave the American flag with pride. Use the code HUFFMAN to save 10% on your first order. Head over to GruntStyle.com
Sabio Coding Bootcamp is a top-ranked coding Bootcamp that is 100% dedicated to helping smart and highly motivated individuals become exceptional software engineers. Visit their website www.Sabio.la to learn how you may be able to use your GI Bill benefits to train at Sabio. Your tuition and a monthly BAH stipend may be paid during your training period.
Check out the full show notes at https://www.airmantomom.com/2021/11/rock-the-boat/
Check out her book at my affiliate link: Rock the Boat
Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/mentoringwiththeadmiral1
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mentoringwiththeadmiral/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/mentoringwitht2
LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/danelle-barrett-1092994/
Navy Biography: https://www.navy.mil/Leadership/Biographies/BioDisplay/Article/2236286/rear-admiral-danelle-barrett/
Thank you to my Patreon Sponsor Col Level and above:
Kevin Barba, Adriana Keefe, Lorraine Diaz
Get your Women of the Military Podcast gear here.
Thank you Patreon members for your support. Become a Patreon member today! Click here.
Danelle_mixdown
Fri, 10/15 3:21PM • 38:16
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
navy, people, military, admiral, ships, stories, career, communications, women, daughter, military spouse, job, work, support, serve, calculus, mom, called, years, podcast
SPEAKERS
Danelle Barrett, Amanda Huffman
Amanda Huffman00:00
Welcome to Episode 160 of the women on the military podcast. This week my guest is retired Rear Admiral Danielle Barrett, she took her 30 years of military experience and put them into her book rock the boat. In her book, she talks about the lessons she has learned from her military career, while also including real stories, or what she calls see stories from her time in the military. I really enjoy getting a chance to have her as a guest on the podcast where we talked about her journey into the Navy, how she balanced her responsibilities in the military as both a mom and military officer along with some of the highlights of her career, and of course, pieces of advice to help you and your career or decision to join the military. It's another great interview. So let's get started. You're listening to season three of the women on the military podcast Here you will find the real stories of female servicemembers. I'm Amanda Huffman, I am an Air Force veteran military spouse and Mom, I Korean women in the military podcast in 2019. As a place to share the stories of female service members past and present, with the goal of finding the heart of the story while uncovering the triumphs and challenges women face while serving in the military. If you want to be encouraged by the stories of military women and be inspired to change the world. Keep tuned for this latest episode of women on the military. Women of the military podcast would like to thank Sabio Coding Bootcamp for sponsoring this week's episode. Sabio Coding Bootcamp is a top ranked coding boot camp that is 100% dedicated to helping smart and highly motivated individuals become exceptional software engineers visit their website at www.sabio.la to learn how you may be able to use your GI Bill benefits to train at savea your tuition and monthly BAH stipend may be paid during your training period. They are also 100% committed and helping you find your first job in tech. So don't forget to head over to www.sabio.la to learn more. And now let's get started with this week's interview Welcome to the show Danelle I'm excited to have you here.
Danelle Barrett02:35
Thank you I'm excited to be here.
Amanda Huffman02:37
So let's start with why did you decide to join the military?
Danelle Barrett02:42
Well it's interesting I grew up in Buffalo which isn't like known to be a big military town I mean there's a lot of retirees there but they're more from other generations and we just didn't have like a big military presence there and so when I was going to college I wanted to do some kind of service so I had looked into maybe the possibly the Peace Corps or something like that and and something about the Navy really just struck me I had as a kid gone to visit we have two museum ships here in Buffalo the Sullivans, which was named after five sailors who had died on the same ship during World War Two terrible tragedy there and the second ship is the little rock and so we had done like, I don't know trips there for school or something. I just was kind of fascinated with it. And and of course, you know, they say join the Navy and see the world and you know, they're not kidding, I think I ended up in about 80 countries. Some of them you want to go to like Bali or Japan or something and other ones maybe weren't on your list like, you know, Iraq or Haiti but you get to see all sorts of great things all over the world. And, and so it just presented a lot of really interesting opportunities for adventure. And you know, just a way to serve the country to that's really what it boils down to.
Amanda Huffman03:40
And you did ROTC right?
Danelle Barrett03:42
I did I did at the Boston University, although I didn't have a scholarship from the Navy. It's kind of an interesting story. I went in January instead of September, and I didn't have a Razzi scholarship. And I wanted to apply for one and they said, Well, if you're going to be one apply for ROTC scholarship, you have to take calculus and physics and I am like mathematics anti matter, right? And so I was like, Huh, and I was a history major. I'm like, you know, if I do that, then I'm gonna lose my partial University scholarship. If I don't keep my GPA up. And then I may not even get a Razzi scholarships, I may really pose myself on this. So I said, you know, what, how about I take your Razzi classes and I pay for my own college and you give me a commission at the end? And then they said yes. And so I did. I put myself through school, worked 30 hours a week in a restaurant, and I worked as a nanny for my room and board and I took a bunch of student loans, and I got my commission like everybody else. In the end, it just worked in a different way.
Amanda Huffman04:34
So you did ROTC but you didn't have a scholarship?
Danelle Barrett04:37
Yeah, well, you know, it kind of teaches you at a young age to be resourceful and to figure out a way to do stuff even if it's not the traditional way to do it. Just figure out a way to get to your goal no matter how you get there. And with that, as long as you're not doing it somebody else's expense, obviously, but you may have to work harder, that's fine. Just Just start doing it. You know, don't complain about it. Just do it.
Amanda Huffman04:55
Yeah. And the fact that they were like, well, you have to take calculus and physics in your life. Not gonna happen. So you find a new way?
Danelle Barrett05:02
Well, you know, it's funny, I have made a career out of avoiding calculus and I joke with people you know, I have four master's degrees in, it's probably because I wasn't smart enough to get the right one the first time around. But when I had to get a technical master's degree, I was like, oh, that evil calculus was popping its head up again. But I was able to overcome it by doing other kind of math and analytic courses, you know, statistics and everything else. And I can honestly say, I've never had to use calculus at work. So I consider that a victory, especially with the Navy. I mean, you know, it's just kind of old mental models, and they just need to look at kind of new ones for what is what is what how do you get critical thinking skills today? Other ways, you know, I mean, so we don't need to apply the 1950s model anymore.
Amanda Huffman05:40
Yeah. So you commissioned and then you went active duty?
Danelle Barrett05:45
You haven't I was active duty from the day I commissioned till I retired 30 years later, little over 30 years. And what was your career? Phil? Well, it's interesting, it started off and changed. Although I did communications and sort of when network started coming aboard about a year or two, after I got in the Navy, I did communications and networks and information operations the whole time, and then moved into digital modernization and transformation later on, but the actual designator or career path changed because they lifted combat restrictions for women. So then we could go to ships, and they made some other changes. And they developed a community or a specific what we call designator called information professionals that all they did was that kind of communications work. And so when I first came in, it was a dog's breakfast of people who are doing that kind of work. And as I progress through, they actually created they realized the Navy did that they need a community that was really focused on, you know, communications and cyber in that space and that kind of stuff. And they created a community of people that that was their whole career path. And I naturally moved into that, because that's what I had done.
Amanda Huffman06:43
Yeah, that sounds really interesting. So what year was it when you joined the Navy?
Danelle Barrett06:49
That was 1989 in August
Amanda Huffman06:51
So that means that Desert Storm happened shortly after your again active duty?
Danelle Barrett06:58
Yeah, it was interesting because I you know, I was now 22 years old, I'm had been in a war before and I didn't consider myself at war at the time. Although I remember the night Desert Storm kicked off. I was like, Okay, what do I do differently? What What does this mean? What should I be doing? And I remember racing into work to make sure you know, because I worked at a short telecommunication station where we provided communications for like air air squadrons and ships and things like that. And I was like, Okay, well, what do I need to do extra? What do we need to do? And you know, it wasn't really any much different other than we had more communications to process, but I didn't go to the frontline or anything like that. In that War I, I did in I rack the second time over, you know, we were over in Iraq. I did, but I wasn't boots on ground the first time in 91.
Amanda Huffman07:40
Yeah, it sounds really interesting. And I read your book, rock the boat, and it sounded like you became a mom pretty early in your career, is that correct?
Danelle Barrett07:50
I was about five years in I was probably 29 when I had my daughter. And it was interesting. She was born in Bahrain, which was where I was stationed in the Middle East at a United States Fifth Fleet command over there. And so it's just a really kind of cool experience. And she has some interesting stories to tell when people say, Hey, we're Where were you born? And they say, Bahrain, and they're like, Well, where's that? You know, tell me about that. So anyways, it was just a really great experience. And I love being a mom, that's my favorite thing. If I have to, if I'm proud of anything in my life, yeah, make an animal that's nice. And all these other things. But being a good mom, or a good wife, that's, that's what takes the cake.
Amanda Huffman08:24
Yeah. And you told a really useful, I don't know if you told a few stories, or maybe it's all one. But I really liked how you talked about, like, the balance between motherhood and being a good sailor in the Navy. Can you talk about like how you did that? And if you have any stories that you want to share? Go ahead and share them? Yeah, sure.
Danelle Barrett08:43
I mean, I think is a woman in any career path, or is a guy you know, I really hate that phrase working mom, because you know, what about a working dad, right? I mean, we're all working right? And so what I found was that, you know, you can beat yourself up incessantly about not being perfect at being either the mom or the work person, right. But what you need to do is cut yourself some slack and realize that, you know, you can do both and do both, well, you're just going to do it differently. You're not going to just do one thing or the other. You can, you can do both. But you have to be deliberate in some of your choices. And make sure you understand where you're taking professional risk or or you're sacrificing time with the people who love you, right. And so all along I, you know, when I had my daughter, I'll give you a story just to give an example when she was through about three and a half years old, almost four years old. I used to drop her off in the mornings at the Child Development Center which was near the base and then I'd go to my ship and I remember one time they were having a hat parade at the Child Development Center and that's literally where they take some newspaper construction paper they make some goofy looking hat that looks like a Pablo chapati you know, Pablo Picasso nightmare and they they parade around the parking lot for about five minutes and all the parents scream with joy, like oh, yeah, you look so great, you know, and then everybody goes about their day and it lasts about 10 minutes the hat parade, right? And so in the morning, I dropped her off that day, and she's like, Okay, mommy hat pray today so Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna be there and I got to work. And it was the day before we were getting underway for a very large joint exercise, which meant we were going to have people from the other services also riding the ship who weren't familiar with the Navy. I mean, they're like, what's a port, what's a starboard and they got Air Force and Army guys walking around, they don't even know anything about being on a ship, let alone How to Get on the networks, everything. And I was responsible for all the networks. And so everybody's trying to get on it was total chaos, you know. And I remember it was like, I got a late start to get over to the hat parade. And when I got over there, I was, like, five minutes late. And sure enough, had parades over, right. And I was like, oh, man, you know. And so I look across the playground and all the kids had gone out to the playground to play and I saw my daughter over there. And she looked at me and her face just burst out crying. And her mouth was so large, it was like, you know, those space pictures of space where you can see like the Great Wall of China, or you can see, you know, the Grand Canyon that looked like her mouth, you know, and she ran over to the fence. And she put her hands to the fence and she said, Mommy, you promised you're going to be here and you weren't. And I mean that just rip my heart out that moment. And I made a choice at that moment, I said, I'm not going to be that parent ever again, I'm not going to put my job over everything else every time all the time. But now there are times in the military, you have to do that. And we all know that. And you do that self like selflessly and your family supports you selflessly. And that is your job. And that's what you are, you have signed up to you and you you love to do that. That is that's why you're there. But But not everything is a crisis like that. And we tend to in the military make everything a crisis when it isn't. And so I said, I'm just not going to be that person anymore. That parent. And so sure enough, it was about six months later. And the same scenario was playing out where we had 600 odd mentees jumping aboard the ship. We're getting underway the next day for an exercise it was it was chaos on the communications and network side. And I went to my boss and it was my daughter's birthday. And I had all these melting cupcakes in the car. And I said to my my boss, I'm like, Look, I gotta go for an hour, I'll be back in an hour. And he was freaking out because he was not a communications guy. He was like a submarine guy. And he but he was responsible for all the communications. So he's like, it's crazy. It's chaos, where, you know, everybody's trying to get the network. It's all we have all these problems. I said, Sir, we're gonna have all these problems in an hour. I just need an hour. And I'll be back and I'll be with you for the rest of the three weeks that were underway. We'll get these things worked out, please just let me have an end to his credit. He said yes, you can have an hour but be back in an hour. And so I went off and we did my daughter's little birthday party. Happy birthday, happy birthday. And I came back on the ship and we went underway and everything survived on the Navy did not implode, nobody died. Everything worked out. Right. And you know, do you think five or six years after that when I was up for my next promotion, or three years, whatever it was that someone said, Oh, Lieutenant Barrett, she was not aboard the ship for an hour before that exercise. There's no way she can make Lieutenant Commander. No, nobody's going to say, I mean, it's ridiculous. We were long forgotten that right? But would my daughter have remembered I missed her birthday? Yes, she would have and I wasn't going to do that. So anyway, you can you can make those choices. But you have to consider the balance. Consider the other people in your life or the other things in your life that are important in and how you balance those out. You have to make really deliberate plan choices to
Amanda Huffman13:05
do that. Yeah, I think that's a great story. And it shows the sacrifice, but also like, you can take an hour to go and do something and then come back and like stay the rest of the day, and the work still gets done. But on maybe not. And it probably would have taken you the same amount of time to stay at work to get everything done, even if you hadn't left for that hour. because like you said, it's still going to be messed up an hour from now or I could just go
Danelle Barrett13:34
and you know, honestly, if nobody's going to remember or care two or three years from now, what are you worried about? Why do you even care? Let it go. You don't have to address it, you know, sometimes no answers an answer, right? There are some things you don't have to do anything about. They work themselves out. And so don't get worked up about stuff that you don't need to figure out what is important. What is the hill you want to tie on, right? What is the most important thing to support your mission and do that and everything else can can wait,
Amanda Huffman14:03
and how did you balance going out to sea and like did you have a family care plan? Did your spouse take care of your daughter How did that all work on the back end?
Danelle Barrett14:12
Well I was incredibly fortunate in that my husband was he's just the best spouse I could ever hope for the best guy in the world. I mean, he supported my career from day one and he was a physical therapy assistant but he always had his career take second fiddle to mine now I did other things to support him along the way that were important to him for example, he wanted to finish his degree in he's from South American he wanted to finish his degree when we first met so I took orders to Puerto Rico so he could study at the University of Puerto Rico knowing that it studying in his own language, medical complex medical things it was a lot easier than studying in English a second language right so and then when he wanted to when I got closer to when we got closer to the end of my career, he wanted to leave physical therapy and become a Reiki Master so you know I support him and making sure he could go to New York and get all his training and open his business and you know, or do volunteer work. And he ended up doing volunteer work at Walter Reed for wounded warriors doing Reiki. So there are ways to support your family and my daughter to her dream all along was to be a professional ballerina. And she is today she's done that for about eight years now. But it was I always took orders where she could get professional training in where I could also, you know, do my work. And so for example, like you say, what happens when you're underway? Well, she would support me and he would support me when I was underway and gone for six months, and they would, you know, they're very close, and they would work together and do their thing. And then when I come back, I'd jump in, and we'd all be together doing things, and I would support them to make sure they could do their, what was important for them to their dreams, and aspiration wasn't just about me. And so you have to really think about that whole little ecosystem of your family or what's important to you. And sometimes, you know, you might not have kids, that's okay my people, your parents, or, or it might be just your hobbies, things you love, you just kind of keep all that in balance. And, and there are times you're going to have to give more and your family knows that and that's part of being that's coming the baggage that comes with being in the military. And but if you have a really good family support system, you're going to be really, really successful. And I was blessed to have that with both my husband and daughter and my mom and dad and stepdad.
Amanda Huffman16:09
That's really great. Do you think that your husband because he was civilian? Right?
Danelle Barrett16:14
yeah, he was a civilian the whole time
Amanda Huffman16:16
Yes. Did he face any challenges? Being a male military spouse?
Danelle Barrett16:20
Oh, heck, yeah. Like when we first got married people, like could not compute, you know, first of all, well, over the course of my career, probably 90% of time, I was the only woman in the room and especially until the last five years, female officer, whatever, you know, so it's very, it was very common. I remember way back in the day when we first got married, and it was like back in 91, you know, you'd show up, and it was the Wives Club. And you know, he's not wanting to join a bunch of clubs anyway, he's really quiet, and he's not and all that, but I'm like, you know, I go to the command, I'd be like, hey, let's call it the spouses club, you know, because, you know, there are other spouses of other genders here, right? You know, and now we're lucky enough to have spouses of couples of, you know, of the same gender and different things in different models for what, what families look like. And I'm glad the Navy is very inclusive of those now, because, you know, it's just great to see that kind of representation all along. And that some of the old things, again, from the 1950s, or some old john wayne movie, you know, the spouse view of the Wives Club, where that's all gone, you know, and I'm not discounting a female spouse by any means. I'm just saying, let's recognize every spouse for the value and the support they provide to our nation, and the people that are doing those tough jobs in our way, you know, fighting wars and things like that.
Amanda Huffman17:26
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I think military spouses play a role in supporting their service member, maybe cuz I'm a military spouse.
Danelle Barrett17:34
Yeah. Well, you know what it's like, great. You absolutely know. And it is, it's, it is a big sacrifice. That's why I always say when I speak at retirement said it's just a month as much about the spouse in the family as it is about the military person. I mean, they the whole little unit served the nation, right? They all made sacrifices to support and defend our Constitution.
Amanda Huffman17:53
For sure, yeah, my husband is supposed to PC or I guess we're supposed to PCs next summer. And we've been trying to figure out where we're going to go. And we've had a lot of discussions. And it's not just a, let's do whatever is best for you. It's a discussion about what's best for the family, and what's good for my career and his career and all lots of different considerations.
Danelle Barrett18:14
Yeah, you guys got the right approach? Because you can do that and make it work. You just it's a little extra work to do that. But do it?
Amanda Huffman18:20
Yeah, it's a little complicated. It gets more complicated, the more years that you go through. So we've gotten a little bit I guess we're about like, seven or eight years into your career, because your daughter's born, I guess, maybe a little bit more than she was four or five. She was probably you're probably like nine or 10 years. When in 2001. Like how old was your daughter when September 11. happened?
Danelle Barrett18:42
She was five? Yeah, she's born 96. That's a lot of public math. For me. You were really testing me there. I mean,
Amanda Huffman18:51
between like, the first Gulf War and September 11, was there anything that stands out from your career that you think people should know about?
Danelle Barrett18:59
Well, not not for me, specifically, but I think there were some big changes that happened, they allowed women on combat ships, they lifted a lot of combat exclusion restrictions. And so that was really great for women in the military and women in the Navy. And it opened up a whole bunch of opportunities for folks that, frankly, had been an artificial stupid barrier for a long time that didn't need to be there. So a lot of those kind of changes were really, really nice to see and opportunities for our sailors and chiefs and officers to then go to ships and experience that be able to contribute there as well. And submarines later submarines to aviation all that. Yeah,
Amanda Huffman19:32
yeah. Yeah. A lot of that happened in the 90s. And one of the submarines happened that was later, right.
Danelle Barrett19:38
That was like in early 2000s. I was no, I don't remember the exact date, but it was it was several years after common exclusion on surface ships. combatants had been lifted.
Amanda Huffman19:46
So do you think that changed the way the war in Iraq and Afghanistan happen, not happen, but the fact that women were able to be on surface ships?
Danelle Barrett 19:57
Absolutely, and I think it added to the richness of the region. Frankly, I mean, you get when you have a diverse group of people, you get all sorts of really good ideas and ways to do things and potentially changes in tactics, techniques, procedures, warfighting concepts. Anytime you have a diverse population, whether it's diverse, gender, diverse race, diverse, you know, way of thinking background where people grew up all those things, you really get to get a lot of great ideas. And that whole crowdsourcing of ideas becomes so much richer. So yeah, I do think it made a difference. Plus, you know, you've got more people to do boots on ground or to be on ships, you got a broader population to draw from of great Americans who want to serve. And you
Amanda Huffman20:36
said earlier that you were boots on ground in Iraq? Yeah. Do you want to talk a little bit about that deployment and what you were doing?
Danelle Barrett20:43
Yeah, that was I really felt privileged to be able to support that effort since beginning of though the second war there around 2003. Boy, the day was escaping me now the exact date I was over there. But yeah, it was an individual augmentee over there. And I was really fortunate from a security perspective in that I wasn't out kicking down doors. I mean, the brave people in that effort, were the sailors, soldiers, Marines, who were in Fallujah, or who were out kicking down, you know, going house to house in on the street all the time. I applaud them for their bravery and their courage and certainly need to take care of a lot of them who have PTSD and suffer from some of the things they've seen in those environments. I was fortunate enough to do most of my work. It was in a palace actually, how was that one is in one of Saddam Hussein's old palaces. And while there was threats to the base, you know, we'd get rocketed mortared and people got killed and be in the wrong place the wrong time. at that place or you know, if your helicopters up, you might get people shooting at the helicopter and things like that. But the work we were doing was more in the at the strategic level, to at that time to help with their first elections and make sure their elections went off well, and then all the planning for the security for that, and the helping them with establishing governments and government projects and things like that were important in my role in that was supporting the communications piece,
Amanda Huffman21:59
which makes sense because I was your career film. Right, right. Yeah, a lot of the Navy pa people that I've talked to who are like infantry, they're old public affairs, which is public affairs and communications, similar but different.
Danelle Barrett22:12
Yeah. So communications you can think of is like the guys who provide your telephone, your, you know, your network connectivity, they make sure that the things are safe and secure for my, like, people can't intercept your signals and things like that. I mean, they allow you to use that kind of platform to do your information warfare, or your administrative tasking and things like that to do your job. The Public Affairs officers are the ones who put out the themes and the messages about what the US government wants to say about what you're doing there. So they would be the ones to do press releases, and arrange press conferences and do things with the Iraqis and other groups, you know, and document that in photos to put in the media and things like that.
Amanda Huffman22:52
Yeah, that makes sense. I've always referred it as air force called calm, which is communications, obviously. So yeah, that sounds like an interesting experience. And it's so interesting to hear all the different roles and jobs and missions that happened in Iraq and Afghanistan, especially with the drawdown of Afghanistan and the wars being officially over. Let's talk a little bit about when you got selected for Admiral and what that experience was like, was it something that you were expecting? And what kind of emotions Did you have when it happened?
Danelle Barrett23:30
Yeah, no, absolutely not expecting it because I mean, that you know, that is rarefied air, I will be I will tell you, and I am blessed that I was picked. I mean, the real realistic thing is, you know, you prepare you do all your jobs, you don't focus on my hammer and make ammo wherever you just get in there and do your job do really well. And whatever happens happens, right? But as you get more senior, and as they every year, they have what's called a selection board that looks at officers records, and they pick out those people, they think they have the potential to serve as an admiral in the Navy, not necessarily what you've done, but what you could do, you know, so it's a combination of the both. And so the year that I was picked for Admiral I was just really, really blessed that the people who were on that selection board saw that I had the potential to make some changes that that for the Navy at that leadership level, and I hope I was able to fulfill their expectations there, you know, but, you know, realistically, they're probably, you know, they might start with, I don't know, 400 500 Records they're looking at, they're gonna pick two or three admirals, whatever, right. And then they'll probably get down to a pool of maybe 20 or 30, that are really, really super competitive for that. And out of those 20 or 30, any one of those officers any day of the week could get picked for Admiral, you know, and it's just the way the wind blew that day that I had somebody on the the people on the board thought that my record was worthy or better or should be considered for that. And I was really blessed and lucky to be picked. And I don't, I don't discount that for a day. I just feel incredibly, incredibly lucky.
Amanda Huffman24:49
It sounds like you're very humble and just really thankful for being selected and that you took that selection as an honor and with a role to fulfill Yeah, I
Danelle Barrett25:00
mean, I took it as a responsibility. And I know that as a animal, you have a limited shelf life, I mean, you're probably gonna be around one, maybe five years. Or if you make three or four star, you may be around for 10 years, right? But you have a limited time to make a difference. So you have to really pick what is the biggest thing, the most important thing I could do for our Navy and our nation in those five years where I can push, using my leadership position to push really, really hard to make those changes that will be lasting and important or needed, or just whatever we need to do as a service to make that are supportive of the nation better. So I really did that. And I focused on a couple key projects that I thought were one key project called compile the combat and 24 hours was kind of my my big thing to transform the Navy's data and transport architecture, because it had been lagging for a long time and how to fix it and really hard. It's one of those big, hard, hairy problems that nobody wants to take on as a an enterprise, they'll kind of chip away at the edges and solve little, try to solve little pieces of it. But you need somebody to tie the whole thing together and to look at it holistically. And I thought that was really important to do. So I spent a lot of my time doing that. And people would come to me, they'd be like, hey, you need to go to this meeting, or you need to do this. I'm like, yep, no, I'm not doing that. You know, right? Because you know, it's not as important. And so you really need to keep your eyes laser focused on what matters for the mission of the Navy and do that. It sounds
Amanda Huffman26:21
like you took your like philosophy on like, figuring out what your priorities were for your family and like moving across the country, and then you used it and applied it to life. What's the most important thing that I can do as an admiral in the Navy, and I know I only have a short window of time. So I'm going to focus on those priorities and I'm not going to get bogged down with all this bureaucratic stuff. Is that kind of what you're saying? Yeah, you
Danelle Barrett26:45
try that I mean, like I will tell you the evil twins of institutional inertia and institutional resistance are everywhere especially the more senior you get, you know, people want to love to tell you no, right. But you know, what you don't take counsel from naysayers is Colin Powell says, you know, don't take don't take the low road, take the high road, keep moving, keep your focus, keep your vision, keep your teams of people around you who will help you get there because they're the ones who will make that a success, not you. And as long as you keep pushing and giving them the resources to do it help clear and barriers out of the way they're going to carry on with that work long after you've gone and you know, I see emails from friends where stuff that I started is moving ahead still and making progress and that really makes me happy because that means you know, the right the Navy is doing the right thing in multiple levels. It's not just me that was pushing that it was other people too. But my point is that you need leaders visibly pushing that and doing those things and not taking no for an answer from the double o sevens have no one the PhDs have no out there, you know, and isn't an organization that's easy to make change in? Absolutely not. I mean, you know, change is hard, people get really angsty about change and you got to be a change management guru and change agent to transform to truly transform it, but that's your job if you're selected to be an emerald.
Amanda Huffman28:02
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I love how you explained it, it makes so much sense and it kind of highlights why people are picked and what generals and admirals do for the military. So that's really good explanation. Like you said you only have like five years or so as an admiral so eventually it was time to leave the military and what was that experience like you kind of had to pick but you also had to get out. So what was that experience like? Or was there something that just made you decide it was time to leave?
Danelle Barrett28:32
Well, everybody everybody's got to get out at some point. I mean, you can't stay in the Navy for everyone she loved the Navy, but I also wanted to do other things you know what I mean? I wanted to have more time with my family more control over my schedule. And you know, the other thing too is if you if you're around the longer you stick around as an animal that's somebody else who can't make Admiral Well, you know, you vacate that job now seats open someone else can make Admiral All right. So there's there's practicalities to like, you know, selection boards, and all those kind of things. And so I just think that, you know, the Navy had kind of said, you know, thanks, thanks for your service. And I said, Hey, thanks for letting me serve and I was ready to go do other things. And I didn't feel like I needed to stay any longer. And I didn't feel like that I was going to miss the Navy. But what I missed about the Navy was the operational jobs and you stopped getting those like when basically when you're a captain anyway, I was lucky to have one at Cyber Command. But a lot of a lot of the really cool interesting fun work is not as an Admiral. It's like the lower ranks, you know, where you're actually hands on doing things and you got sailors working for you and things like that. So the things that I would miss about the Navy I had already missed Anyway, you know, I want to get those jobs back on ships again, and things like that. And so for me leaving the Navy wasn't a problem because you know, I don't look in my rearview mirror. When I make a decision. I move out and I get excited about the future and I am excited. I'm doing all sorts of fun stuff I love to do, and I still keep in touch with my Navy friends. So the things that I loved about the Navy and my friends, my shipmates, I still have them. So it's not like I've missed anything.
Amanda Huffman29:57
Yeah, and I mentioned earlier that you wrote a book I don't remember if I said the title, but it's rock the boat. And what led you to decide to write a book on leadership? Well,
Danelle Barrett30:08
you know, over the years, anybody who's a Navy officer or any kind of officer or senior enlisted, you end up talking in front of groups, they asked you to speak on leadership topics or mentoring topics, and things like that. And I found that people were asking always, it's funny, they always ask the same question. So what do I do if my boss is a jerk? You know, how do I have a work life balance? How do I plan for a career and not just not my next job? Or, you know, how do I communicate better. So the same things would come up again and again. And again, I said to my husband, I'm just gonna write that down. But I wanted to write a book that was more like a conversation. So we're like we're having now I didn't want to write like a heavy leadership tome. Because frankly, I find those incredibly boring. And you know, when people add gravitas by trying to put some mathematical formula in there for leadership, I'm like, Oh, please just show me the exit door right now. My eyes are my eyeballs are bleeding. So I just wanted to write a book that was hopefully a little, you know, gave some stories, you know, some see stories icon that might be funny, or endearing, or that might help you remember a leadership lesson long after you put the book
Amanda Huffman31:08
down. So yeah, I was telling you before we started the interview, that I really like to see stories at the end, because they were so real, and they were like, not stuff that I guess I expected, I guess I expect that. They'll be like, very polished. And I'm not saying you weren't, but you just were so real with like your stories that made it very relatable to my life, in my experience. And so I really enjoyed that part of it, where I could hear your stories, and they always related really well with the chapter that you wrote about. So I thought you did a really good job of like, tying each chapter together was like, here's what you should do. Here's my advice. And then here's a C story. And then I also like the, you always ended it with, like three positives, which I always like that because sometimes you had like, really hard situations, and you were like, I'm gonna still find three positives. And I love that attitude. And that way of looking back at things of looking for three positives that you can take with you instead of just focusing on the negative.
Danelle Barrett32:12
Yeah, no, I appreciate thank you for the comments. And that was kind of the intent that I wanted to get out of it. It's like, yeah, you know, my underwear story is probably not one that most animals would write about. But it makes you think, you know, the moral story is slow down, you know, take your life a little slower, and you're gonna cause yourself less problems, right? And like you said, you can find you have to train your brain to think positively. And I think as a leader, that's a, that's a responsibility we have is to be positive, not to be unrealistic or Pollyanna, right? But to be positive, and to, you know, force, not force but encourage positivity and collaboration and a, you know, a forward thinking vision, Outlook. That's, that's very open and positive and transparent with the people we work with. That's what makes people want to follow leaders. Nobody wants to follow Debbie Downer down the road, you know what I mean? And so, you know, find out what you can pull out of even the worst, most cringeworthy situation. I mean, if you didn't die, you're gonna make it through, and there's gonna be something you could pull out of that to learn from and teach somebody else from and if he did die, okay, well, there you go. Right. You don't have to worry about it.
Amanda Huffman33:17
Yeah, I know, I kept telling my husband that I was like, She's so funny, because usually you read a leadership book and you're not laughing.
Danelle Barrett33:25
I'm glad you will have that was the intent was some of those stories, because you'll remember the lesson though, right? out of that. You may not remember the theory, but you'll certainly remember the lesson.
Amanda Huffman33:35
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Is there anything else from your time in the military or a piece of wisdom that you want to share with the audience? Before we wrap it up with one more question?
Danelle Barrett33:46
No, I just think that, you know, when when polls are taken, you know, nationally about you know, who in government, people trust, almost always the military comes out at the top in a positive way. And I just hope that we'll still have people who want to serve their country, and we have so many talented young people who come in the military who could be doing anything else, they could be making more money somewhere else they could be not putting their lives in danger, not having to make sacrifices with their family the way you do in the military, then we, we still have an all volunteer force of outstanding professional, great, dedicated citizens who want to come and serve their country from all walks of life, liberals, Democrats, Republican, it doesn't matter what party you know, what political battle background they have. They're all genders. They're all all races, all different backgrounds, different areas of the country. And they all want to do the same thing. They want to protect and defend our Constitution. And as we've seen in the last year, our democracy and our constitution are the most important things that we have in this nation. Nothing else our economy, nothing else even compares to that. And so we have to maintain that and I'm just honored to have served with so many people over the years, who felt the same way.
Amanda Huffman34:57
Yeah, I love that and That is one of the like great parts about the military is there's people from all over the country and different races and ethnicities and cultures. And you just, it changes your worldview of the military, at least for me, because I grew up in a small town, and I didn't really know anyone outside of that small town. And then I joined the military. And I had all these friends from all over, and I lived in different places, and I learned a lot.
Danelle Barrett35:25
Thank you for your service, really, I mean, you could have chose to do anything else. And you chose to serve. And there's a reason it's called serving. So thank you for your service.
Amanda Huffman35:34
So I want to ask you one last question, which is kind of tied into your last answer, but more directly focused on young women who are considering military service, what would you say to them? If they're thinking about joining the military?
Danelle Barrett35:47
I would say absolutely, I mean, when I first got in, the military was a harder place for women. But over the 30 years I've been in, it's amazing. All the progress that's been made in the progress has continued to make every day and, you know, you've seen Admiral Howard forced our female Admiral, you've seen Admiral tie a three star I mean, there's lots and lots of examples of people make two types command master chiefs and force master chiefs who are women. So there's no barrier in the military, we just had a female, get through SEAL training, right? And so I'm really happy I think, now that we don't have to say there's firsts in the Navy anymore. It's now normal. It's you know, these are just great officers, chiefs, and, and enlisted women who are, who are just officers, chiefs and enlisted. They don't have to call them out as being male or female anymore. They're just great. patriots serving their country. And it's great. You're at the point where, you know, we don't have to worry about being the first to this the first of that anymore. It's just the way it is. And we got great professionals doing it, and they just happen to be women. Yeah,
Amanda Huffman36:57
thank you so much for being on the podcast and everybody go out and get her book, rock the boat. I share your left as much as I did. And just thank you so much.
Danelle Barrett37:07
Thanks for the opportunity. I really appreciate the conversation. Thank you.
Amanda Huffman37:14
Thank you for listening to this week's episode of women of the military podcast Do you love all things women in the military podcast become a subscriber so you never miss an episode and consider leaving a review it really helps people find the podcast and helps the podcast to grow. Are you still listening? You can be a part of the mission of telling the stories of military women by joining me on patreon@patreon.com slash women of the military or you can order my book women in the military on Amazon. Every dollar helps to continue the work I am doing. Are you a business owner? Do you want to get your product or service in front of the women of the military podcast audience get in touch with the woman of the military podcast team to learn more. All the links on how you can support women in the military podcasts are located in the show notes. Thanks again for listening and for your support.
Danelle_mixdown
Fri, 10/15 3:21PM • 38:16
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
navy, people, military, admiral, ships, stories, career, communications, women, daughter, military spouse, job, work, support, serve, calculus, mom, called, years, podcast
SPEAKERS
Danelle Barrett, Amanda Huffman
Amanda Huffman00:00
Welcome to Episode 160 of the women on the military podcast. This week my guest is retired Rear Admiral Danielle Barrett, she took her 30 years of military experience and put them into her book rock the boat. In her book, she talks about the lessons she has learned from her military career, while also including real stories, or what she calls see stories from her time in the military. I really enjoy getting a chance to have her as a guest on the podcast where we talked about her journey into the Navy, how she balanced her responsibilities in the military as both a mom and military officer along with some of the highlights of her career, and of course, pieces of advice to help you and your career or decision to join the military. It's another great interview. So let's get started. You're listening to season three of the women on the military podcast Here you will find the real stories of female servicemembers. I'm Amanda Huffman, I am an Air Force veteran military spouse and Mom, I Korean women in the military podcast in 2019. As a place to share the stories of female service members past and present, with the goal of finding the heart of the story while uncovering the triumphs and challenges women face while serving in the military. If you want to be encouraged by the stories of military women and be inspired to change the world. Keep tuned for this latest episode of women on the military. Women of the military podcast would like to thank Sabio Coding Bootcamp for sponsoring this week's episode. Sabio Coding Bootcamp is a top ranked coding boot camp that is 100% dedicated to helping smart and highly motivated individuals become exceptional software engineers visit their website at www.sabio.la to learn how you may be able to use your GI Bill benefits to train at savea your tuition and monthly BAH stipend may be paid during your training period. They are also 100% committed and helping you find your first job in tech. So don't forget to head over to www.sabio.la to learn more. And now let's get started with this week's interview Welcome to the show Danelle I'm excited to have you here.
Danelle Barrett02:35
Thank you I'm excited to be here.
Amanda Huffman02:37
So let's start with why did you decide to join the military?
Danelle Barrett02:42
Well it's interesting I grew up in Buffalo which isn't like known to be a big military town I mean there's a lot of retirees there but they're more from other generations and we just didn't have like a big military presence there and so when I was going to college I wanted to do some kind of service so I had looked into maybe the possibly the Peace Corps or something like that and and something about the Navy really just struck me I had as a kid gone to visit we have two museum ships here in Buffalo the Sullivans, which was named after five sailors who had died on the same ship during World War Two terrible tragedy there and the second ship is the little rock and so we had done like, I don't know trips there for school or something. I just was kind of fascinated with it. And and of course, you know, they say join the Navy and see the world and you know, they're not kidding, I think I ended up in about 80 countries. Some of them you want to go to like Bali or Japan or something and other ones maybe weren't on your list like, you know, Iraq or Haiti but you get to see all sorts of great things all over the world. And, and so it just presented a lot of really interesting opportunities for adventure. And you know, just a way to serve the country to that's really what it boils down to.
Amanda Huffman03:40
And you did ROTC right?
Danelle Barrett03:42
I did I did at the Boston University, although I didn't have a scholarship from the Navy. It's kind of an interesting story. I went in January instead of September, and I didn't have a Razzi scholarship. And I wanted to apply for one and they said, Well, if you're going to be one apply for ROTC scholarship, you have to take calculus and physics and I am like mathematics anti matter, right? And so I was like, Huh, and I was a history major. I'm like, you know, if I do that, then I'm gonna lose my partial University scholarship. If I don't keep my GPA up. And then I may not even get a Razzi scholarships, I may really pose myself on this. So I said, you know, what, how about I take your Razzi classes and I pay for my own college and you give me a commission at the end? And then they said yes. And so I did. I put myself through school, worked 30 hours a week in a restaurant, and I worked as a nanny for my room and board and I took a bunch of student loans, and I got my commission like everybody else. In the end, it just worked in a different way.
Amanda Huffman04:34
So you did ROTC but you didn't have a scholarship?
Danelle Barrett04:37
Yeah, well, you know, it kind of teaches you at a young age to be resourceful and to figure out a way to do stuff even if it's not the traditional way to do it. Just figure out a way to get to your goal no matter how you get there. And with that, as long as you're not doing it somebody else's expense, obviously, but you may have to work harder, that's fine. Just Just start doing it. You know, don't complain about it. Just do it.
Amanda Huffman04:55
Yeah. And the fact that they were like, well, you have to take calculus and physics in your life. Not gonna happen. So you find a new way?
Danelle Barrett05:02
Well, you know, it's funny, I have made a career out of avoiding calculus and I joke with people you know, I have four master's degrees in, it's probably because I wasn't smart enough to get the right one the first time around. But when I had to get a technical master's degree, I was like, oh, that evil calculus was popping its head up again. But I was able to overcome it by doing other kind of math and analytic courses, you know, statistics and everything else. And I can honestly say, I've never had to use calculus at work. So I consider that a victory, especially with the Navy. I mean, you know, it's just kind of old mental models, and they just need to look at kind of new ones for what is what is what how do you get critical thinking skills today? Other ways, you know, I mean, so we don't need to apply the 1950s model anymore.
Amanda Huffman05:40
Yeah. So you commissioned and then you went active duty?
Danelle Barrett05:45
You haven't I was active duty from the day I commissioned till I retired 30 years later, little over 30 years. And what was your career? Phil? Well, it's interesting, it started off and changed. Although I did communications and sort of when network started coming aboard about a year or two, after I got in the Navy, I did communications and networks and information operations the whole time, and then moved into digital modernization and transformation later on, but the actual designator or career path changed because they lifted combat restrictions for women. So then we could go to ships, and they made some other changes. And they developed a community or a specific what we call designator called information professionals that all they did was that kind of communications work. And so when I first came in, it was a dog's breakfast of people who are doing that kind of work. And as I progress through, they actually created they realized the Navy did that they need a community that was really focused on, you know, communications and cyber in that space and that kind of stuff. And they created a community of people that that was their whole career path. And I naturally moved into that, because that's what I had done.
Amanda Huffman06:43
Yeah, that sounds really interesting. So what year was it when you joined the Navy?
Danelle Barrett06:49
That was 1989 in August
Amanda Huffman06:51
So that means that Desert Storm happened shortly after your again active duty?
Danelle Barrett06:58
Yeah, it was interesting because I you know, I was now 22 years old, I'm had been in a war before and I didn't consider myself at war at the time. Although I remember the night Desert Storm kicked off. I was like, Okay, what do I do differently? What What does this mean? What should I be doing? And I remember racing into work to make sure you know, because I worked at a short telecommunication station where we provided communications for like air air squadrons and ships and things like that. And I was like, Okay, well, what do I need to do extra? What do we need to do? And you know, it wasn't really any much different other than we had more communications to process, but I didn't go to the frontline or anything like that. In that War I, I did in I rack the second time over, you know, we were over in Iraq. I did, but I wasn't boots on ground the first time in 91.
Amanda Huffman07:40
Yeah, it sounds really interesting. And I read your book, rock the boat, and it sounded like you became a mom pretty early in your career, is that correct?
Danelle Barrett07:50
I was about five years in I was probably 29 when I had my daughter. And it was interesting. She was born in Bahrain, which was where I was stationed in the Middle East at a United States Fifth Fleet command over there. And so it's just a really kind of cool experience. And she has some interesting stories to tell when people say, Hey, we're Where were you born? And they say, Bahrain, and they're like, Well, where's that? You know, tell me about that. So anyways, it was just a really great experience. And I love being a mom, that's my favorite thing. If I have to, if I'm proud of anything in my life, yeah, make an animal that's nice. And all these other things. But being a good mom, or a good wife, that's, that's what takes the cake.
Amanda Huffman08:24
Yeah. And you told a really useful, I don't know if you told a few stories, or maybe it's all one. But I really liked how you talked about, like, the balance between motherhood and being a good sailor in the Navy. Can you talk about like how you did that? And if you have any stories that you want to share? Go ahead and share them? Yeah, sure.
Danelle Barrett08:43
I mean, I think is a woman in any career path, or is a guy you know, I really hate that phrase working mom, because you know, what about a working dad, right? I mean, we're all working right? And so what I found was that, you know, you can beat yourself up incessantly about not being perfect at being either the mom or the work person, right. But what you need to do is cut yourself some slack and realize that, you know, you can do both and do both, well, you're just going to do it differently. You're not going to just do one thing or the other. You can, you can do both. But you have to be deliberate in some of your choices. And make sure you understand where you're taking professional risk or or you're sacrificing time with the people who love you, right. And so all along I, you know, when I had my daughter, I'll give you a story just to give an example when she was through about three and a half years old, almost four years old. I used to drop her off in the mornings at the Child Development Center which was near the base and then I'd go to my ship and I remember one time they were having a hat parade at the Child Development Center and that's literally where they take some newspaper construction paper they make some goofy looking hat that looks like a Pablo chapati you know, Pablo Picasso nightmare and they they parade around the parking lot for about five minutes and all the parents scream with joy, like oh, yeah, you look so great, you know, and then everybody goes about their day and it lasts about 10 minutes the hat parade, right? And so in the morning, I dropped her off that day, and she's like, Okay, mommy hat pray today so Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna be there and I got to work. And it was the day before we were getting underway for a very large joint exercise, which meant we were going to have people from the other services also riding the ship who weren't familiar with the Navy. I mean, they're like, what's a port, what's a starboard and they got Air Force and Army guys walking around, they don't even know anything about being on a ship, let alone How to Get on the networks, everything. And I was responsible for all the networks. And so everybody's trying to get on it was total chaos, you know. And I remember it was like, I got a late start to get over to the hat parade. And when I got over there, I was, like, five minutes late. And sure enough, had parades over, right. And I was like, oh, man, you know. And so I look across the playground and all the kids had gone out to the playground to play and I saw my daughter over there. And she looked at me and her face just burst out crying. And her mouth was so large, it was like, you know, those space pictures of space where you can see like the Great Wall of China, or you can see, you know, the Grand Canyon that looked like her mouth, you know, and she ran over to the fence. And she put her hands to the fence and she said, Mommy, you promised you're going to be here and you weren't. And I mean that just rip my heart out that moment. And I made a choice at that moment, I said, I'm not going to be that parent ever again, I'm not going to put my job over everything else every time all the time. But now there are times in the military, you have to do that. And we all know that. And you do that self like selflessly and your family supports you selflessly. And that is your job. And that's what you are, you have signed up to you and you you love to do that. That is that's why you're there. But But not everything is a crisis like that. And we tend to in the military make everything a crisis when it isn't. And so I said, I'm just not going to be that person anymore. That parent. And so sure enough, it was about six months later. And the same scenario was playing out where we had 600 odd mentees jumping aboard the ship. We're getting underway the next day for an exercise it was it was chaos on the communications and network side. And I went to my boss and it was my daughter's birthday. And I had all these melting cupcakes in the car. And I said to my my boss, I'm like, Look, I gotta go for an hour, I'll be back in an hour. And he was freaking out because he was not a communications guy. He was like a submarine guy. And he but he was responsible for all the communications. So he's like, it's crazy. It's chaos, where, you know, everybody's trying to get the network. It's all we have all these problems. I said, Sir, we're gonna have all these problems in an hour. I just need an hour. And I'll be back and I'll be with you for the rest of the three weeks that were underway. We'll get these things worked out, please just let me have an end to his credit. He said yes, you can have an hour but be back in an hour. And so I went off and we did my daughter's little birthday party. Happy birthday, happy birthday. And I came back on the ship and we went underway and everything survived on the Navy did not implode, nobody died. Everything worked out. Right. And you know, do you think five or six years after that when I was up for my next promotion, or three years, whatever it was that someone said, Oh, Lieutenant Barrett, she was not aboard the ship for an hour before that exercise. There's no way she can make Lieutenant Commander. No, nobody's going to say, I mean, it's ridiculous. We were long forgotten that right? But would my daughter have remembered I missed her birthday? Yes, she would have and I wasn't going to do that. So anyway, you can you can make those choices. But you have to consider the balance. Consider the other people in your life or the other things in your life that are important in and how you balance those out. You have to make really deliberate plan choices to
Amanda Huffman13:05
do that. Yeah, I think that's a great story. And it shows the sacrifice, but also like, you can take an hour to go and do something and then come back and like stay the rest of the day, and the work still gets done. But on maybe not. And it probably would have taken you the same amount of time to stay at work to get everything done, even if you hadn't left for that hour. because like you said, it's still going to be messed up an hour from now or I could just go
Danelle Barrett13:34
and you know, honestly, if nobody's going to remember or care two or three years from now, what are you worried about? Why do you even care? Let it go. You don't have to address it, you know, sometimes no answers an answer, right? There are some things you don't have to do anything about. They work themselves out. And so don't get worked up about stuff that you don't need to figure out what is important. What is the hill you want to tie on, right? What is the most important thing to support your mission and do that and everything else can can wait,
Amanda Huffman14:03
and how did you balance going out to sea and like did you have a family care plan? Did your spouse take care of your daughter How did that all work on the back end?
Danelle Barrett14:12
Well I was incredibly fortunate in that my husband was he's just the best spouse I could ever hope for the best guy in the world. I mean, he supported my career from day one and he was a physical therapy assistant but he always had his career take second fiddle to mine now I did other things to support him along the way that were important to him for example, he wanted to finish his degree in he's from South American he wanted to finish his degree when we first met so I took orders to Puerto Rico so he could study at the University of Puerto Rico knowing that it studying in his own language, medical complex medical things it was a lot easier than studying in English a second language right so and then when he wanted to when I got closer to when we got closer to the end of my career, he wanted to leave physical therapy and become a Reiki Master so you know I support him and making sure he could go to New York and get all his training and open his business and you know, or do volunteer work. And he ended up doing volunteer work at Walter Reed for wounded warriors doing Reiki. So there are ways to support your family and my daughter to her dream all along was to be a professional ballerina. And she is today she's done that for about eight years now. But it was I always took orders where she could get professional training in where I could also, you know, do my work. And so for example, like you say, what happens when you're underway? Well, she would support me and he would support me when I was underway and gone for six months, and they would, you know, they're very close, and they would work together and do their thing. And then when I come back, I'd jump in, and we'd all be together doing things, and I would support them to make sure they could do their, what was important for them to their dreams, and aspiration wasn't just about me. And so you have to really think about that whole little ecosystem of your family or what's important to you. And sometimes, you know, you might not have kids, that's okay my people, your parents, or, or it might be just your hobbies, things you love, you just kind of keep all that in balance. And, and there are times you're going to have to give more and your family knows that and that's part of being that's coming the baggage that comes with being in the military. And but if you have a really good family support system, you're going to be really, really successful. And I was blessed to have that with both my husband and daughter and my mom and dad and stepdad.
Amanda Huffman16:09
That's really great. Do you think that your husband because he was civilian? Right?
Danelle Barrett16:14
yeah, he was a civilian the whole time
Amanda Huffman16:16
Yes. Did he face any challenges? Being a male military spouse?
Danelle Barrett16:20
Oh, heck, yeah. Like when we first got married people, like could not compute, you know, first of all, well, over the course of my career, probably 90% of time, I was the only woman in the room and especially until the last five years, female officer, whatever, you know, so it's very, it was very common. I remember way back in the day when we first got married, and it was like back in 91, you know, you'd show up, and it was the Wives Club. And you know, he's not wanting to join a bunch of clubs anyway, he's really quiet, and he's not and all that, but I'm like, you know, I go to the command, I'd be like, hey, let's call it the spouses club, you know, because, you know, there are other spouses of other genders here, right? You know, and now we're lucky enough to have spouses of couples of, you know, of the same gender and different things in different models for what, what families look like. And I'm glad the Navy is very inclusive of those now, because, you know, it's just great to see that kind of representation all along. And that some of the old things, again, from the 1950s, or some old john wayne movie, you know, the spouse view of the Wives Club, where that's all gone, you know, and I'm not discounting a female spouse by any means. I'm just saying, let's recognize every spouse for the value and the support they provide to our nation, and the people that are doing those tough jobs in our way, you know, fighting wars and things like that.
Amanda Huffman17:26
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I think military spouses play a role in supporting their service member, maybe cuz I'm a military spouse.
Danelle Barrett17:34
Yeah. Well, you know what it's like, great. You absolutely know. And it is, it's, it is a big sacrifice. That's why I always say when I speak at retirement said it's just a month as much about the spouse in the family as it is about the military person. I mean, they the whole little unit served the nation, right? They all made sacrifices to support and defend our Constitution.
Amanda Huffman17:53
For sure, yeah, my husband is supposed to PC or I guess we're supposed to PCs next summer. And we've been trying to figure out where we're going to go. And we've had a lot of discussions. And it's not just a, let's do whatever is best for you. It's a discussion about what's best for the family, and what's good for my career and his career and all lots of different considerations.
Danelle Barrett18:14
Yeah, you guys got the right approach? Because you can do that and make it work. You just it's a little extra work to do that. But do it?
Amanda Huffman18:20
Yeah, it's a little complicated. It gets more complicated, the more years that you go through. So we've gotten a little bit I guess we're about like, seven or eight years into your career, because your daughter's born, I guess, maybe a little bit more than she was four or five. She was probably you're probably like nine or 10 years. When in 2001. Like how old was your daughter when September 11. happened?
Danelle Barrett18:42
She was five? Yeah, she's born 96. That's a lot of public math. For me. You were really testing me there. I mean,
Amanda Huffman18:51
between like, the first Gulf War and September 11, was there anything that stands out from your career that you think people should know about?
Danelle Barrett18:59
Well, not not for me, specifically, but I think there were some big changes that happened, they allowed women on combat ships, they lifted a lot of combat exclusion restrictions. And so that was really great for women in the military and women in the Navy. And it opened up a whole bunch of opportunities for folks that, frankly, had been an artificial stupid barrier for a long time that didn't need to be there. So a lot of those kind of changes were really, really nice to see and opportunities for our sailors and chiefs and officers to then go to ships and experience that be able to contribute there as well. And submarines later submarines to aviation all that. Yeah,
Amanda Huffman19:32
yeah. Yeah. A lot of that happened in the 90s. And one of the submarines happened that was later, right.
Danelle Barrett19:38
That was like in early 2000s. I was no, I don't remember the exact date, but it was it was several years after common exclusion on surface ships. combatants had been lifted.
Amanda Huffman19:46
So do you think that changed the way the war in Iraq and Afghanistan happen, not happen, but the fact that women were able to be on surface ships?
Danelle Barrett 19:57
Absolutely, and I think it added to the richness of the region. Frankly, I mean, you get when you have a diverse group of people, you get all sorts of really good ideas and ways to do things and potentially changes in tactics, techniques, procedures, warfighting concepts. Anytime you have a diverse population, whether it's diverse, gender, diverse race, diverse, you know, way of thinking background where people grew up all those things, you really get to get a lot of great ideas. And that whole crowdsourcing of ideas becomes so much richer. So yeah, I do think it made a difference. Plus, you know, you've got more people to do boots on ground or to be on ships, you got a broader population to draw from of great Americans who want to serve. And you
Amanda Huffman20:36
said earlier that you were boots on ground in Iraq? Yeah. Do you want to talk a little bit about that deployment and what you were doing?
Danelle Barrett20:43
Yeah, that was I really felt privileged to be able to support that effort since beginning of though the second war there around 2003. Boy, the day was escaping me now the exact date I was over there. But yeah, it was an individual augmentee over there. And I was really fortunate from a security perspective in that I wasn't out kicking down doors. I mean, the brave people in that effort, were the sailors, soldiers, Marines, who were in Fallujah, or who were out kicking down, you know, going house to house in on the street all the time. I applaud them for their bravery and their courage and certainly need to take care of a lot of them who have PTSD and suffer from some of the things they've seen in those environments. I was fortunate enough to do most of my work. It was in a palace actually, how was that one is in one of Saddam Hussein's old palaces. And while there was threats to the base, you know, we'd get rocketed mortared and people got killed and be in the wrong place the wrong time. at that place or you know, if your helicopters up, you might get people shooting at the helicopter and things like that. But the work we were doing was more in the at the strategic level, to at that time to help with their first elections and make sure their elections went off well, and then all the planning for the security for that, and the helping them with establishing governments and government projects and things like that were important in my role in that was supporting the communications piece,
Amanda Huffman21:59
which makes sense because I was your career film. Right, right. Yeah, a lot of the Navy pa people that I've talked to who are like infantry, they're old public affairs, which is public affairs and communications, similar but different.
Danelle Barrett22:12
Yeah. So communications you can think of is like the guys who provide your telephone, your, you know, your network connectivity, they make sure that the things are safe and secure for my, like, people can't intercept your signals and things like that. I mean, they allow you to use that kind of platform to do your information warfare, or your administrative tasking and things like that to do your job. The Public Affairs officers are the ones who put out the themes and the messages about what the US government wants to say about what you're doing there. So they would be the ones to do press releases, and arrange press conferences and do things with the Iraqis and other groups, you know, and document that in photos to put in the media and things like that.
Amanda Huffman22:52
Yeah, that makes sense. I've always referred it as air force called calm, which is communications, obviously. So yeah, that sounds like an interesting experience. And it's so interesting to hear all the different roles and jobs and missions that happened in Iraq and Afghanistan, especially with the drawdown of Afghanistan and the wars being officially over. Let's talk a little bit about when you got selected for Admiral and what that experience was like, was it something that you were expecting? And what kind of emotions Did you have when it happened?
Danelle Barrett23:30
Yeah, no, absolutely not expecting it because I mean, that you know, that is rarefied air, I will be I will tell you, and I am blessed that I was picked. I mean, the real realistic thing is, you know, you prepare you do all your jobs, you don't focus on my hammer and make ammo wherever you just get in there and do your job do really well. And whatever happens happens, right? But as you get more senior, and as they every year, they have what's called a selection board that looks at officers records, and they pick out those people, they think they have the potential to serve as an admiral in the Navy, not necessarily what you've done, but what you could do, you know, so it's a combination of the both. And so the year that I was picked for Admiral I was just really, really blessed that the people who were on that selection board saw that I had the potential to make some changes that that for the Navy at that leadership level, and I hope I was able to fulfill their expectations there, you know, but, you know, realistically, they're probably, you know, they might start with, I don't know, 400 500 Records they're looking at, they're gonna pick two or three admirals, whatever, right. And then they'll probably get down to a pool of maybe 20 or 30, that are really, really super competitive for that. And out of those 20 or 30, any one of those officers any day of the week could get picked for Admiral, you know, and it's just the way the wind blew that day that I had somebody on the the people on the board thought that my record was worthy or better or should be considered for that. And I was really blessed and lucky to be picked. And I don't, I don't discount that for a day. I just feel incredibly, incredibly lucky.
Amanda Huffman24:49
It sounds like you're very humble and just really thankful for being selected and that you took that selection as an honor and with a role to fulfill Yeah, I
Danelle Barrett25:00
mean, I took it as a responsibility. And I know that as a animal, you have a limited shelf life, I mean, you're probably gonna be around one, maybe five years. Or if you make three or four star, you may be around for 10 years, right? But you have a limited time to make a difference. So you have to really pick what is the biggest thing, the most important thing I could do for our Navy and our nation in those five years where I can push, using my leadership position to push really, really hard to make those changes that will be lasting and important or needed, or just whatever we need to do as a service to make that are supportive of the nation better. So I really did that. And I focused on a couple key projects that I thought were one key project called compile the combat and 24 hours was kind of my my big thing to transform the Navy's data and transport architecture, because it had been lagging for a long time and how to fix it and really hard. It's one of those big, hard, hairy problems that nobody wants to take on as a an enterprise, they'll kind of chip away at the edges and solve little, try to solve little pieces of it. But you need somebody to tie the whole thing together and to look at it holistically. And I thought that was really important to do. So I spent a lot of my time doing that. And people would come to me, they'd be like, hey, you need to go to this meeting, or you need to do this. I'm like, yep, no, I'm not doing that. You know, right? Because you know, it's not as important. And so you really need to keep your eyes laser focused on what matters for the mission of the Navy and do that. It sounds
Amanda Huffman26:21
like you took your like philosophy on like, figuring out what your priorities were for your family and like moving across the country, and then you used it and applied it to life. What's the most important thing that I can do as an admiral in the Navy, and I know I only have a short window of time. So I'm going to focus on those priorities and I'm not going to get bogged down with all this bureaucratic stuff. Is that kind of what you're saying? Yeah, you
Danelle Barrett26:45
try that I mean, like I will tell you the evil twins of institutional inertia and institutional resistance are everywhere especially the more senior you get, you know, people want to love to tell you no, right. But you know, what you don't take counsel from naysayers is Colin Powell says, you know, don't take don't take the low road, take the high road, keep moving, keep your focus, keep your vision, keep your teams of people around you who will help you get there because they're the ones who will make that a success, not you. And as long as you keep pushing and giving them the resources to do it help clear and barriers out of the way they're going to carry on with that work long after you've gone and you know, I see emails from friends where stuff that I started is moving ahead still and making progress and that really makes me happy because that means you know, the right the Navy is doing the right thing in multiple levels. It's not just me that was pushing that it was other people too. But my point is that you need leaders visibly pushing that and doing those things and not taking no for an answer from the double o sevens have no one the PhDs have no out there, you know, and isn't an organization that's easy to make change in? Absolutely not. I mean, you know, change is hard, people get really angsty about change and you got to be a change management guru and change agent to transform to truly transform it, but that's your job if you're selected to be an emerald.
Amanda Huffman28:02
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I love how you explained it, it makes so much sense and it kind of highlights why people are picked and what generals and admirals do for the military. So that's really good explanation. Like you said you only have like five years or so as an admiral so eventually it was time to leave the military and what was that experience like you kind of had to pick but you also had to get out. So what was that experience like? Or was there something that just made you decide it was time to leave?
Danelle Barrett28:32
Well, everybody everybody's got to get out at some point. I mean, you can't stay in the Navy for everyone she loved the Navy, but I also wanted to do other things you know what I mean? I wanted to have more time with my family more control over my schedule. And you know, the other thing too is if you if you're around the longer you stick around as an animal that's somebody else who can't make Admiral Well, you know, you vacate that job now seats open someone else can make Admiral All right. So there's there's practicalities to like, you know, selection boards, and all those kind of things. And so I just think that, you know, the Navy had kind of said, you know, thanks, thanks for your service. And I said, Hey, thanks for letting me serve and I was ready to go do other things. And I didn't feel like I needed to stay any longer. And I didn't feel like that I was going to miss the Navy. But what I missed about the Navy was the operational jobs and you stopped getting those like when basically when you're a captain anyway, I was lucky to have one at Cyber Command. But a lot of a lot of the really cool interesting fun work is not as an Admiral. It's like the lower ranks, you know, where you're actually hands on doing things and you got sailors working for you and things like that. So the things that I would miss about the Navy I had already missed Anyway, you know, I want to get those jobs back on ships again, and things like that. And so for me leaving the Navy wasn't a problem because you know, I don't look in my rearview mirror. When I make a decision. I move out and I get excited about the future and I am excited. I'm doing all sorts of fun stuff I love to do, and I still keep in touch with my Navy friends. So the things that I loved about the Navy and my friends, my shipmates, I still have them. So it's not like I've missed anything.
Amanda Huffman29:57
Yeah, and I mentioned earlier that you wrote a book I don't remember if I said the title, but it's rock the boat. And what led you to decide to write a book on leadership? Well,
Danelle Barrett30:08
you know, over the years, anybody who's a Navy officer or any kind of officer or senior enlisted, you end up talking in front of groups, they asked you to speak on leadership topics or mentoring topics, and things like that. And I found that people were asking always, it's funny, they always ask the same question. So what do I do if my boss is a jerk? You know, how do I have a work life balance? How do I plan for a career and not just not my next job? Or, you know, how do I communicate better. So the same things would come up again and again. And again, I said to my husband, I'm just gonna write that down. But I wanted to write a book that was more like a conversation. So we're like we're having now I didn't want to write like a heavy leadership tome. Because frankly, I find those incredibly boring. And you know, when people add gravitas by trying to put some mathematical formula in there for leadership, I'm like, Oh, please just show me the exit door right now. My eyes are my eyeballs are bleeding. So I just wanted to write a book that was hopefully a little, you know, gave some stories, you know, some see stories icon that might be funny, or endearing, or that might help you remember a leadership lesson long after you put the book
Amanda Huffman31:08
down. So yeah, I was telling you before we started the interview, that I really like to see stories at the end, because they were so real, and they were like, not stuff that I guess I expected, I guess I expect that. They'll be like, very polished. And I'm not saying you weren't, but you just were so real with like your stories that made it very relatable to my life, in my experience. And so I really enjoyed that part of it, where I could hear your stories, and they always related really well with the chapter that you wrote about. So I thought you did a really good job of like, tying each chapter together was like, here's what you should do. Here's my advice. And then here's a C story. And then I also like the, you always ended it with, like three positives, which I always like that because sometimes you had like, really hard situations, and you were like, I'm gonna still find three positives. And I love that attitude. And that way of looking back at things of looking for three positives that you can take with you instead of just focusing on the negative.
Danelle Barrett32:12
Yeah, no, I appreciate thank you for the comments. And that was kind of the intent that I wanted to get out of it. It's like, yeah, you know, my underwear story is probably not one that most animals would write about. But it makes you think, you know, the moral story is slow down, you know, take your life a little slower, and you're gonna cause yourself less problems, right? And like you said, you can find you have to train your brain to think positively. And I think as a leader, that's a, that's a responsibility we have is to be positive, not to be unrealistic or Pollyanna, right? But to be positive, and to, you know, force, not force but encourage positivity and collaboration and a, you know, a forward thinking vision, Outlook. That's, that's very open and positive and transparent with the people we work with. That's what makes people want to follow leaders. Nobody wants to follow Debbie Downer down the road, you know what I mean? And so, you know, find out what you can pull out of even the worst, most cringeworthy situation. I mean, if you didn't die, you're gonna make it through, and there's gonna be something you could pull out of that to learn from and teach somebody else from and if he did die, okay, well, there you go. Right. You don't have to worry about it.
Amanda Huffman33:17
Yeah, I know, I kept telling my husband that I was like, She's so funny, because usually you read a leadership book and you're not laughing.
Danelle Barrett33:25
I'm glad you will have that was the intent was some of those stories, because you'll remember the lesson though, right? out of that. You may not remember the theory, but you'll certainly remember the lesson.
Amanda Huffman33:35
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Is there anything else from your time in the military or a piece of wisdom that you want to share with the audience? Before we wrap it up with one more question?
Danelle Barrett33:46
No, I just think that, you know, when when polls are taken, you know, nationally about you know, who in government, people trust, almost always the military comes out at the top in a positive way. And I just hope that we'll still have people who want to serve their country, and we have so many talented young people who come in the military who could be doing anything else, they could be making more money somewhere else they could be not putting their lives in danger, not having to make sacrifices with their family the way you do in the military, then we, we still have an all volunteer force of outstanding professional, great, dedicated citizens who want to come and serve their country from all walks of life, liberals, Democrats, Republican, it doesn't matter what party you know, what political battle background they have. They're all genders. They're all all races, all different backgrounds, different areas of the country. And they all want to do the same thing. They want to protect and defend our Constitution. And as we've seen in the last year, our democracy and our constitution are the most important things that we have in this nation. Nothing else our economy, nothing else even compares to that. And so we have to maintain that and I'm just honored to have served with so many people over the years, who felt the same way.
Amanda Huffman34:57
Yeah, I love that and That is one of the like great parts about the military is there's people from all over the country and different races and ethnicities and cultures. And you just, it changes your worldview of the military, at least for me, because I grew up in a small town, and I didn't really know anyone outside of that small town. And then I joined the military. And I had all these friends from all over, and I lived in different places, and I learned a lot.
Danelle Barrett35:25
Thank you for your service, really, I mean, you could have chose to do anything else. And you chose to serve. And there's a reason it's called serving. So thank you for your service.
Amanda Huffman35:34
So I want to ask you one last question, which is kind of tied into your last answer, but more directly focused on young women who are considering military service, what would you say to them? If they're thinking about joining the military?
Danelle Barrett35:47
I would say absolutely, I mean, when I first got in, the military was a harder place for women. But over the 30 years I've been in, it's amazing. All the progress that's been made in the progress has continued to make every day and, you know, you've seen Admiral Howard forced our female Admiral, you've seen Admiral tie a three star I mean, there's lots and lots of examples of people make two types command master chiefs and force master chiefs who are women. So there's no barrier in the military, we just had a female, get through SEAL training, right? And so I'm really happy I think, now that we don't have to say there's firsts in the Navy anymore. It's now normal. It's you know, these are just great officers, chiefs, and, and enlisted women who are, who are just officers, chiefs and enlisted. They don't have to call them out as being male or female anymore. They're just great. patriots serving their country. And it's great. You're at the point where, you know, we don't have to worry about being the first to this the first of that anymore. It's just the way it is. And we got great professionals doing it, and they just happen to be women. Yeah,
Amanda Huffman36:57
thank you so much for being on the podcast and everybody go out and get her book, rock the boat. I share your left as much as I did. And just thank you so much.
Danelle Barrett37:07
Thanks for the opportunity. I really appreciate the conversation. Thank you.
Amanda Huffman37:14
Thank you for listening to this week's episode of women of the military podcast Do you love all things women in the military podcast become a subscriber so you never miss an episode and consider leaving a review it really helps people find the podcast and helps the podcast to grow. Are you still listening? You can be a part of the mission of telling the stories of military women by joining me on patreon@patreon.com slash women of the military or you can order my book women in the military on Amazon. Every dollar helps to continue the work I am doing. Are you a business owner? Do you want to get your product or service in front of the women of the military podcast audience get in touch with the woman of the military podcast team to learn more. All the links on how you can support women in the military podcasts are located in the show notes. Thanks again for listening and for your support.