How powerful is mindful meditation practice? Listen to Debra's military story to see the positive impact meditation had on her life. She was raped while deployed to Iraq. Her leadership knew something was wrong but didn't know what to do. She was sent to a treatment center where she experienced another traumatic event. After that even Debra's body shut down, the Army didn't know what to do. And she left the military broken. Luckily the story doesn't end there. Eventually, she was able to find healing and a path forward through mindful meditation.
Thank you to Gracefully Global Group for sponsoring this week's episode of Women of the Military Podcast
Want to inspire your community with a unique presentation by a woman veteran speaker and author? Air Force veteran Graciela Tiscareno-Sato, Founder of Gracefully Global Group, an educational publishing firm creatively serving communities. Graciela serves audiences in Spanish and English at teacher conferences, schools, and libraries. Bringing the award-winning, bilingual Captain Mama children’s books, and her aviation service story, to life. Next, Graciela leads AUTHENTIC Personal Branding workshops, helping transitioning service members, spouses, and vets in career transition to CREATE targeted brands. Use BRAND Before Your Resume – as a marketing guidebook. Lastly, corporate Speaker Sponsors make inspirational keynote addresses at their events possible. Surprising attendees with logo-sponsored copies of our books. We’re in the business of inspiration! Call area code (510) 542-9449 to inquire about bringing Graciela to YOUR next event. Learn more here.
The last two weeks of boot camp for Debra were after September 11th. And while she expected the military to be a way for her to pay for college when September 11th happened she felt that she had found her purpose. She completed tech school and went back home to go to school, work, and serve in the National Guard.
In 2003, she was activated to active duty to work at Robins Air Force Base. She enjoyed her time at Robins but struggled to hold her tongue having had leadership experience managing a Mcdonald's and being the rank of E-4 not being able to provide feedback that she wanted to.
She went back home and continued her time in the National Guard and was about to transition out of the Guard when she was tasked with a deployment. Being a military brat, she was able to pick herself up and accept the military changing her life plans. And she headed off to training and then war.
Her deployment was going well. She found comradery and got to work with a lot of people, but in May 2009 she was raped and shut down. The Army knew something was wrong because she stopped talking and eating and they tried to figure out what was happening.
They decided to send her to Bagdad and she began to get help, but a soldier came in and killed her psychiatrist and four other members and she was hidden in her room hoping she wouldn’t die. These two incidents happened within a week of each other and her body couldn’t cope.
The Army struggled to help her and eventually, she was separated from the military with PTSD. She was using destructive coping methods (parting and drinking) and was spiraling, but then she found out she was pregnant. When she found out she was pregnant she stopped drinking and began to find healing through the love she had for her child.
A few years later she felt her life was spiraling and started to get help through counseling. One of the recommendations was to start a daily meditation practice. And through that journey, she found healing and now wants to pass on the healing she has found through meditation through her nonprofit, Enlightened Veterans. They are having their first all-women four-day retreat in Denver in May Add dates and link. You can learn more about it here.
www.facebook.com/enlightenedveterans
Looking at Military Transition from a Different Perspective - Episode 125
Flawed but still worthy - Episode 116
A Military Sexual Trauma Survivors Story – Episode 26
Check out the full transcript here.
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Amanda Huffman00:00
Welcome to Episode 133 of the women in the military podcasts. This week my guest is Debra Johnson the last two weeks of boot camp for Debrah we're after September 11. And while she expected the military to be a way for her to pay for college when September 11 happened, she felt that she had found her purpose she completed tech school and went back home to go to school work and serve in the National Guard. Then in 2003, she was activated to work active duty at Robins Air Force Base, she was ready to leave the military behind at the end of her service commitment, but was stopped lost and sent on a deployment being a military brat she was able to pick herself up and accept the challenge that the military laid in front of her. She said the deployment wasn't that bad. And then she was raped. The army knew that there was something wrong because she stopped talking and eating and they couldn't figure out what's happening. So they decided to send her to Baghdad, and she began to get help. But a soldier came in and killed her psychiatrists and four other members and she was hiding in her room hoping she wouldn't die. These two incidents happen within a week of each other and her body couldn't cope. The army didn't really know what to do, and she was eventually separated from the military with PTSD. She was using destructive coping mechanisms to help her but she was spiraling out of control. But then she found out she was pregnant. And when she found out she was pregnant, she stopped drinking and began to find healing through the love she had for her child. A few years later, she found her life spiraling again. And she started to get help through counseling. One of the recommendations was to start a daily meditation practice, which she did, and that has led her to start a nonprofit called enlightened veterans, and they are working to have their first all day women retreat, but it's still up in the air due to COVID. But you can go to their websites, which I'll link to in the show notes to learn more about what they're doing. I am a strong supporter of meditation to help with PTSD. And that comes out just a little bit in this podcast interview. So I really hope you enjoy this episode, and let's get started. You're listening to season three of the woman on the military podcast Here you will find the real stories of female servicemembers. I'm Amanda Huffman, I am an Air Force veteran, military spouse and mom. I created women in the military podcast in 2019. As a place to share the stories of female service members past and present, with the goal of finding the heart of the story, while uncovering the triumphs and challenges women face while serving in the military. If you want to be encouraged by the stories of military women and be inspired to change the world, keep tuned for this latest episode of women on the military.
Graciela Tiscareno-Sato 03:03
And now word from our sponsor: Want to inspire your community with unique presentation by a woman veteran speaker and author? I'm Air Force veteran good to see that these Catania Sato, founder of gracefully global group, an educational publishing firm creatively serving communities. First, I serve audiences in Spanish and English, a teacher conferences, schools and libraries, bringing the award winning bilingual Captain mama children's books, and my Aviation Service story to life. Second, I lead authentic personal branding workshops, helping transitioning service members, spouses and vets in career transition to create targeted brands we've published brand before your resume marketing guidebook featuring personal brands crafted by that's spouses, this has never been done before. Third, corporate speaker sponsors make inspirational keynote addresses at their events possible, surprising attendees but logo sponsored copies of our books. Were in the business of inspiration, call area code 510-542-9449 to inquire about bring me to your next event.
Amanda Huffman04:08
Let's get back to the show. Welcome to the podcast. I'm excited to have you here. Deborah.
Debra Johnson04:13
So excited to be here.
Amanda Huffman04:14
So let's start with why did you decide to join the military?
Debra Johnson04:18
To go get a college degree. My parents made it very clear to me when I was young that they were not paying for college. And if I wanted to continue my education that I would have to find another way and so the military was that other way.
Amanda Huffman04:31
So you decided to join the military because you needed money for college? Yeah. How did you pick which branch of the military to join?
Debra Johnson04:39
My dad was career Army. So, Army was really the only choice when it came to which branches I didn't even go talk to anyone else besides the army recruiter. I just felt like I was connected to my dad in that way.
Amanda Huffman04:53
That makes sense. So you're an army brat?
Debra Johnson04:55
Yes. moved around quite a bit born in Massachusetts and moved around everywhere else. My entire life?
Amanda Huffman05:02
And do you think that your parents said that it? Did they not have money for college or they wanted to push you toward the military?
Debra Johnson05:09
No, it was just something that they said if you want to pursue it, then you need to pay for it. And I completely respected that. But this is pre 911. So this was at where the military was at a different a very different position. I should say. I was in basic training when I heard about 911. So I was looking for college in the beginning. And then I just found out that this was my purpose. Wow.
Amanda Huffman05:31
So you're at basic training during September 11? Yes, I
Debra Johnson05:35
was in the grenade range when it happened. And they pulled us all aside and asked anybody if they were in the areas that were affected, and then the rest of us got briefed afterwards.
Amanda Huffman05:46
So that'd be kind of an interesting experience. Because I mean, in a way, when you're at boot camp, you're kind of like sheltered from the world. But obviously, that was such a big event, and it had an impact on your life going forward. That
Debra Johnson06:00
Yeah, basic training was so different after that. Our particular drill sergeant was from the Desert Storm era. So it felt like he was trying to prepare us to go to war because he said, you know, such such and such percentage is not going to come back home. You all are going overseas, you have to be prepared for this. So it the training just intensified.
Amanda Huffman06:21
And how many weeks into boot camp? Were you when that happened? Ooh, good
Debra Johnson06:25
question. I want to say week six,
Amanda Huffman06:28
and how many weeks is eight weeks? Eight weeks? Oh, here she is. We're almost done. Almost done
Debra Johnson06:34
with a locked, they locked the army base down for graduation. Our parents, my parents were able to come thank goodness, but we weren't allowed off base or anything like that. And then we just headed straight for our AI t assignments.
Amanda Huffman06:46
So what was your career field? And where did you go?
Debra Johnson06:49
I went to Fort Lee Virginia and I was 92, Yankee logistics, logistics, that's such an important career field in the army. It is and it's and it's got so many different facets to it. You know, we have to deal with weapons and gear and trucks and and people and you know, just just so many aspects of logistics that I just really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed doing my job. That's awesome.
Amanda Huffman07:14
So how long were you at tech school?
Debra Johnson07:17
I was there for nine weeks? Yes, nine weeks, and then we got to go home?
Amanda Huffman07:23
And did you go home on leave, and then went to your next assignment?
Debra Johnson07:26
Well, I was an active duty I was I signed up National Guard.
Amanda Huffman07:29
Okay,
Debra Johnson07:30
so I went back to my Well, I went to a unit in Georgia. And it was a transportation unit. So I got to learn how to be a truck driver, while also doing my job as a 92. Yankee.
Amanda Huffman07:43
How interesting. So it was your plan to go to school while you were doing National Guard and army?
Debra Johnson07:50
Yeah, that was the plan started school in 2002. And I finally graduated in 2012.
Amanda Huffman07:58
Well, you graduated. That's all that really matters, right?
08:01
Amen. Sister. Amen. I went out and I got my master's degree also. So the military has definitely taken care of my education.
Amanda Huffman08:09
That's awesome. Congratulations.
Debra Johnson08:11
Thank you.
Amanda Huffman08:12
So was there anything in the military that caused your education to get a little off track like did they did you go on deployment? Or did you have to go on training and let's talk about that?
Debra Johnson08:23
Yeah, we did a stateside deployment. Our transportation company was set up to go to Robins Air Force Base in Georgia, we were going to help the security forces on Robins Air Force Base. And we did that for two years. And so while I was there doing that home side assignment, I was doing some college there. And then when I got out in 2005, I just didn't continue my education until 2010.
Amanda Huffman08:48
So you said that you were home station deployed? Were you like active duty, but you know how it gets complicated, or a little more what that means for you as a national guardsmen?
Debra Johnson09:03
Yeah, as the National Guardsmen we were called up to active duty orders, and we were considered active duty for the two years. While I was first it was first that we got activated for one year to Robins Air Force Base. So it was kind of like a deployment. We had to do it, but it was just stateside because we didn't have enough vehicles to help in Iraq or Afghanistan. So basically, we were non deployable, non deployable unit. So yeah, we joined the Air Force Base on Robins air force base for two years, and it was one of the most memorable times in my life. I really, really enjoyed it.
Amanda Huffman09:36
And so was, I mean, that was kind of an unexpected sweat. Yeah. Because you're like going to school and in the National Guard, and then all of a sudden, they're like, and now you're active duty and you're going and how far away from you're in Georgia, obviously because you're in the National Guard. But how far was it to Robbins to from where you were,
Debra Johnson09:57
it was only two hours. Not too Not too bad they they gave us houses to live in. I mean, the Air Force really knows how to treat you. So they Yeah, it was really amazing.
Amanda Huffman10:08
Yeah, but it's two hours. It's not like you can just continue your normal life.
Debra Johnson10:12
Right? No, no.
Amanda Huffman10:13
yeah, it was like a disruption because you had to move and like, figure out a new plan forward but..
10:20
Right and then getting acclimated to being on a Airforce Base with other active duty soldiers. So all of us national gardeners, we're not used to saluting every time we see a captain or you know, just we had to get acclimated to being on active duty and then for being on active duty for those two years. Then when we went home, there were several of us that said that we felt kind of empty, because we had we got we got so much from being there and helping Robins Air Force Base that it was just it was life changing in you know, in positive and negative ways, but mostly positive.
Amanda Huffman10:57
Yeah. So let's talk a little bit more about both the positives and the negatives that you experienced doing that. And like you said, Robbins, and I just like, oh, Air Force, and I didn't even like cross. I was like, Oh, yeah, you were in the RV. So that's kind of it's so fascinating, the different stories and experiences people have cuz you would think, Well, that doesn't make sense. But that's what you did. So let's talk about the the challenges and the good things positives and the negatives.
11:28
Okay, positives, being on active duty, the money, of course, is really great, because we don't have to pay rent or obviously living rent free in these houses. So a lot of us had a lot of monetary gains, and the camaraderie. I really enjoyed hanging out with ourselves as a unit, we would do a lot of cookouts a lot of like we would play dominoes. And just just the camaraderie in itself is the one thing that I miss so dearly. And the positive is that I got to be on active duty. And I got to experience that type of lifestyle, because it's definitely different coming from a National Guard soldier to an active duty soldier. So it's, it was a wake up call, for sure.
Amanda Huffman12:09
And let's talk a little bit about like the challenges or the hard parts.
Debra Johnson12:12
Sure. Yeah, the hard part for me personally, and my platoon sergeant would probably agree was that I was I found it very difficult to keep my military composure and to not have an opinion. In the civilian side, I was a store manager for McDonald's. So I had experience I had leadership experience, significant amount of leadership experience. And when there was a lack of leadership in the unit, or in the office of where I served, it was very difficult, it was very difficult to bite my tongue. So that was the hardest part was knowing my civilian leadership skills could help in a scenario, but my rank being an e4, it caused me not to be in that conversation whatsoever, despite my civilian experience. So I felt like I just I just, it's it was a, it was a hard thing to manage.
Amanda Huffman13:03
Yeah, that makes sense. And I if you're listening, and you don't really understand like the military structure, you will be like, but you have a good idea that makes sense. But the way the military is broken up, it's based on like rank and rank is like the most important thing and the National Guard. And the reserves are kind of unique, because you have that civilian side, and you also have the military side. And then on active duty. It's like your job is to do whatever the military tells you. And so it's an interesting dynamic of making that switch.
Debra Johnson13:34
But it was fun. It was fun. It was a great experience. And I really, I really enjoyed it as well. My favorite military experience was being Robins Air Force Base, they just treated us so well. And they showed us so much respect the security forces just just so much respect, I love it.
Amanda Huffman13:50
That's awesome to hear that you have that joint experience that you got to go on duty. And because you're an active duty for so long, you qualify for like GI Bill and everything like that. Right.
Debra Johnson14:02
So I spent probably 18 months doing school there. So I got most of my core classes done while I was in route Robins Air Force Base,
Amanda Huffman14:10
And then you decided to leave army.
14:14
Well, this is this is kind of a funny new scenario. I came home and they did say that I didn't have to go to a couple of drills, but I only had drills meaning weekends where you're supposed to serve but I only had three weekends left until I was ETS thing which is exiting the military. So I when I signed up for my contract I signed up for six years by two years. And so the six years were serving in the National Guard and then the two years afterwards was two years basically if you get called up you get assigned to active duty so you basically on a list. So I got orders to go to Iraq one month before I was supposed to completely get out of the military be done with my my whole session. But yeah, that's how I found out I was going to Iraq. Wow, it was crazy.
Amanda Huffman15:02
You were like in the process of transitioning and figuring out the next phase. And they're like, and by the way, going to Iraq.
15:09
Yeah. And I found out by a packet of orders that was sitting on my front desk when I got off of work. So to me, I was done with the military. I was I did my service, I did everything I needed to do. And then, you know, I got orders in July to go to Iraq. And I was supposed to report to Fort Jackson on August 4, so I had 30 days to prepare to go to Iraq.
Amanda Huffman15:33
Wow, that's crazy.
Debra Johnson15:35
It was quite a shock.
Amanda Huffman15:37
I mean, it's hard when you're on duty, I think I had about 30 days or so when I found out about my deployment, but like I was active duty. And so it was, it was different. Like, I know, a deployment was coming. It just it was like, yeah, it's here. We know what it is. And like, No, you have to do the checklist. But if you are like getting out of the military, and active duty getting out of the guard, and then it's like.
16:02
I was done. I mean, you know, in my mind, I had served my purpose. But the army had other plans,
Amanda Huffman16:09
apparently. So that was like a whirlwind of crazy, I'm guessing in that 30 days to get ready to go.
Debra Johnson16:17
But it only took me a couple of days to accept it.
Amanda Huffman16:19
I was just gonna ask that question. I was gonna say, like, when you arrived, were you ready? Did you or so it's out. So you were you processed it and you were like, Okay, this is what I'm going to do. And I wonder if military brat had anything to do with that?
Debra Johnson16:35
I think that's a good comment to build up of because it took me a couple of days for the wow factor. But then it was like, Okay, well, this, I'm in the military. I'm in the army. This is what I have to do. This is what I'm what needs to get done. And I have to be gone. But it was just like, it's just it's like my robotic memory. Just kick kicked back in.
Amanda Huffman16:55
Yeah, it makes sense. My son's a military brat. And we couldn't do something. And he was like, Oh, that's because Daddy has this and none of that. And it was just like, he just accept normal, right? He was telling my mom and my mom was like, it was so funny, because he was like, well, this is this and this. And it was just like he and he's seven. And he already like, you know, he just understands this is how I've been. And that's awesome. Yeah, I bet that had so much to do. You're a military brat. And you're like, Oh, yes. You forward,
17:30
we got to do?
Amanda Huffman17:33
Well, I mean, at least you were like in the right mental capacity to go to deployment and not like, resentful, and hating life and
Debra Johnson17:41
totally embrace the opportunity with open arms. I said, This is what, you know, I felt honored. When I was at Fort Jackson, I really felt honored because some people during a wartime scenario like my dad, he was in the military during I want to it was it. Yeah, it was Vietnam. And he volunteered. And one month after he was actually in California to try to go over and the war ended. So he has that time period of being in the military, and never deploying, so I was happy that I could at least be in the military and deploy, because most soldiers don't get that opportunity. I know that sounds kind of weird, but a lot of people take pride in being deployed at least once in their career.
Amanda Huffman18:29
Yeah, it's true. It's It's interesting how it works, that sometimes people just don't ever get called up especially like they want to deploy and they can't.
Debra Johnson18:38
Right, there's so many instances with people who can't deploy.
Amanda Huffman18:41
So let's talk a little bit about your deployment
18:43
I'll just take it start to finish, if you want me to kind of go brief, though. So I get to Fort Jackson. And they give us a couple of weeks of time to where we're re acclimating with military. So we're taking classes on what the rank structure is, how the uniform is supposed to look just just pretty much given us a rocket amount of time to be soldiers again. And then after that they sent us to Fort Lee or they sent people there were more than just me, obviously. So they had people go back to their AI t locations to continue to train for two weeks on their job and to kind of get re acclimated to their jobs and things of that nature. So after the training at Fort Lee, I was then connected to a cab unit in Wisconsin. And this was the unit that I was going to deploy with. So that training was a little different. I was stepping into my job more, but we were also getting trained to go to Iraq like translation, what to do in different scenarios, you know, just overseas deployment training, and that lasted about two or three months and we deployed to Iraq in October. So we we got there. We relieved the unit that was there. We were given instructions on what we were supposed Do and then we just began to set up shop and everything was going really well, I went on leave the leave process was ridiculous if you've ever been on leave with being overseas, that was a conundrum in itself. But I really enjoyed working in logistics, I enjoyed having the camaraderie back, I really missed that I missed it more than I thought I knew. But our job, quote unquote job was to transport VIPs, from the Baghdad International Airport to other locations. So basically, we provided security for VIPs in that area, and I got to work with all of the soldiers that wish is the one thing I do love about logistics is that I can in anything in a unit, you know your admin, because your admin will take care of you leave, and then your logistics support, because then you know, they'll always take care of you and do what you need to do. So it was really interesting. It was it was those were the positives, the constant bombs, I want to say I wouldn't call them bombs. I don't I don't know how to say that. But we weren't, I don't even know, I don't even know if we were physically under attack or we weren't. Because the noises like if we were being attacked, were so common that I guess I got used to it, if that makes any sense. And then in around May, I was I was raped in country. So after that situation happened. I was sent to a base psychologist and they took me off of all duties and took me as a psychologist to see what was going on with me. I didn't tell anyone what happened. But they were just trying to figure out what's wrong with me. I was completely mute, I stopped eating. They took away my weapon because I said I wanted to kill myself or someone else. And I guess they couldn't get through to me with the psychologist that was on our FOB. So I got moved to the one at Baghdad International Airport. And I was impatient there. And while I was impatient, there was a massive shooting from an American soldier who shot a psychiatrist, and four other members that were in the building. And I was in the building as well. So there were two traumatic instances that happened while I was overseas that I did not anticipate. And so after the shooting happened, I just completely shut down and I wanted to go home. That's all I kept saying, I just want to go home, I want to go home, I'm done here. I want to go home. And they sent me to Germany to out process through there. And I lost probably 35 pounds, I'd say yeah, 30 pounds. In the week there, I was vomiting. I wasn't I wasn't leaving my room, my body was shutting down. And it was just stress was taking over my body. And I didn't have control of it anymore. So needless to say, I finally got home. And I was at Fort Benning and I stayed there about 18 months trying different therapies and different ways of coping, trying to figure out what the heck was wrong with me. And then they finally decided that I was no longer allowed in the military with my PTSD. So I was discharged in March 2010. So that's the story.
Amanda Huffman23:18
I'm so sorry, that happened. A lot of my like all my PTSD. I didn't wasn't rape, but I was treated really badly by team members. And when I talk about my story and like the hurt and the pain, it didn't come from the enemy. It came from the people who were inside the wire with me. So I can I just it's just so hard to hear because it's it's the truth is that they're like women on the base like they are they are raped and like it's like the military doesn't know how to deal with it. And it's it's really it's really sad. And when you were with the psychiatrists were they able to figure out like what was causing you or were you like locked down and you wouldn't talk to anyone so they didn't weren't able to figure out what had caused your shift?
Debra Johnson24:07
Well, I talked to the doctorabout being raped, and he was the one giving me medications and he was the doctor that was shot inside the mental health facility that year. Him and four other people. Because when you because when you go into the, the inpatient facility, they take your weapon from you. So all of us patients were disarmed. And somebody comes through with his M16. And he starts shooting everybody. I mean, all we could do was run I was in my room hiding and praying. It was insane.
Amanda Huffman24:41
It is insane. Wow.
24:43
So needless to say I couldn't know because after so I opened up to the doctor. I tell him what happened. He gets shot and dies. Rip I love you. But then after that, it's like no, everything was focused on the shooting. Nobody knew really focused on why were you there in the first place, everything went back to the shooting. Right? So my, my MST got swept under the rug in a sense.
Amanda Huffman25:08
Yeah. Which it's odd that they, I mean, I understand like why they focus so much on the shooting because like, then you wanted to go home and like that was really traumatic, but the fact that they were like, let's not even figure out why you were there in the first place because you're there like, maybe we should fix what happened first and then we can figure out the secondary because I feel like you can't fix the secondary trauma without fixing the first trauma.
Debra Johnson25:34
Exactly. And and when people ask me, which didn't because that's that was one of the famous questions. Which traumatic instance is more, which one affects you more, I was just like, they happened within a week of each other. I have no idea what's happening right now. I have no idea what's going on my brain. So how can I identify which one is more severe than the other?
Amanda Huffman25:54
I have no idea. Because they are both severe.
Debra Johnson25:57
Right? Exactly.
Amanda Huffman25:59
I don't I mean, in a way, they both have like equal trauma, like I don't know how you would be able to answer, especially going through the trauma, like maybe years later, you could look back and like but going through it, I don't know.
Debra Johnson26:14
That's really hard. And that was one of the big problems I had at the W TV, it was called the Warrior Transition battalion. And I would get really upset when people would ask me that question, because I'm like, I don't know, how am I supposed to know if I knew all? If I had all the answers, I would be sitting in your seat and you would be sitting in mind stop asking me that ignorant question. And I understand that mental health professionals, they have to read what's on the screen, and they have to get the answers, you know, that they that they need to get. But as the patient I was really frustrated that I felt more like a number, like if I choose this path, then you're going to be considered this or if you choose this path, and you're going to be considered this. And it was it was exhausting.
Amanda Huffman26:55
Instead of treating you like a person they're treating you like a person. I can see signs of when I got home from my deployment where I was like asking for help. Like, first I went to a counselor, she told me he'll be fine, just adjust back to normal life. And then second, I went to like the mental health evaluation. And I told the tech about my struggles and like what I was having, and then she's like, you need to tell the doctor that and I was like, Oh, crap. And so I didn't tell the doctor cuz he didn't ask me the same questions, right? I didn't feel comfortable telling a man I told this woman, nurse tech. And she never told anyone and like, I feel like when you like get the courage to tell someone something that's going on, like in your mind, mentally, you're not going to repeat it 30 seconds later to another person's like, Why do I have to talk to people? If you're not even going to do anything with the information? Like you want to tell the doctor once you went out? This is what the girl told me. Now you need to like find out more on do your job, you're right.
Debra Johnson27:56
She doesn't feel comfortable with you. I mean, understand. I get it.
Amanda Huffman28:01
Yeah. Well, I'm so sorry. Well, is there a healing? I'm assuming there is a healing journey, because you're here now and you're talking about it. So can we talk a little bit about once you got out of the army system, how you were able to move forward?
28:16
Sure. When I get out in 2010, I was coping negatively. I was drinking every day, going to the bars every day, not really caring about anything. I had no care in the world. I lived a very wild and rambunctious life, I would say up until the beginning of 2011. When I became pregnant with my son, he is seven, I stopped drinking, I stopped going out and partying. I stopped everything. When I found out I was pregnant. And once I had him I feel like I just it was like a breath of fresh air. It's the it was the breath of fresh air that I needed. It was the love that I wasn't giving myself. So I was able to love him and loving him was allowing me to love myself. So I started working out I just took care of him. He was my priority. And I got back together with the guy that I had lost without when I was in Iraq. I actually lost a relationship while I was there. I sent him a dear john letter that I don't even remember writing. So I assuming that it was in one of those traumatic instances that was going on. But I had my son was working out my me and my husband, my still husband got married in. Let's see, what am I skipping? Oh, so after I had my son I started taking better care of myself and I had a strong pull to start meditating. I had no idea how to meditate. Why meditate? I have no idea but everything every time I heard meditation, I'm like, yeah, that is calling me for some reason. So I took a couple of years of trying to lose weight being a mom being a wife, when we got married in 2014 and And then I started to sense that life was kind of getting out of balance again, because I felt like it was my new norm, but I was pushing against change. But as I continued, I still struggled with depression. And I still hadn't dealt with any of my trauma. Even after the time I spent on Fort Benning, I still hadn't even opened, I mean, the door was open, but there was so much stuff in that door to deal with. It's just like a kept close knit back. I'm like, oh, I'll deal with that messy closet. Later, I started going to weekly treatments at a Jewish center, it was called jfcs. And I would go there once a week with my son, my son was then three at the time, and he was getting occupational therapy while I was getting therapy. And I did that for about a year, I really enjoyed that. She taught me that if I'm going to build a life, I need to start at the bottom with the foundation. And I started with the foundation of brushing my teeth, washing my face, take my meds, and that was it. Like those were how simple my goals were at that point in time. And that really helped with my mood, it helped with the way I was handling my life. And then we moved to Colorado, and still that meditation because when I left my therapist in Atlanta, she said just believe have something to believe in. Because I didn't really understand my relationship with God at that time. So I took her to heart and I said, You know what, that's my first Sunday here in Denver, which I currently live. And I said, All right, I'm gonna find something to believe in. What do I believe? I believe there's a God, I believe that all of us are pieces of God, where do I go with this? So my son and I went on a drive. And we pulled up to a spiritual sense, I guess, I guess. So it this way I can say it, and I started meditating. So this was 2015. By now, so 2015. So that's when I started meditating about five years ago, in and out, not knowing what meditation is just sitting down and trying to get my thoughts to calm. That's what I thought meditation was. But I learned throughout the years, that is a lot different. But I should say now and 2020, I am still meditating. And I started a nonprofit to help women veterans get that juiciness of a belief system. It doesn't have to be the same as mine. But just something to believe in something to talk to something to. And that's what I think meditation is meditation gets you to meet you there meet you there in that space and shows you what your God is, and aligns you with that. So that's what I take pride in nowadays.
Amanda Huffman32:40
Yeah, my mom got me to start meditating in January. And then I kind of fell off the wagon. And then I started a challenge this summer, and today actually is 100 days of meditating. And it's like, so weird, because it's like the thing that I needed, but I had no idea and it's exactly you can suck at it. And it doesn't matter. You know, like, you can have a good meditation, you got a bad meditation doesn't matter. But like, yeah, my mom told me about it, because she heard that, like, veterans were using it to deal with PTSD. And I was like, whatever, Mom, you're crazy, right? And like now that I'm like, 100 days in the first time, I did it for about 20 days. And like, I could tell that it was good. But like now that I'm 100 days in, like, I need that 1015 minutes, at the end of every day, I do it in the evening, before I go to bed. That was I had to find the time that were for me, but I do it in the evening before I go to bed. And it's just like this, like all my thoughts, and then I stop and like I just I can see them like the waterfall rushing past and like, and that's good stuff. And like my faith is I'm a Christian. And I always kind of felt like meditation. It's not but it's like prayer. Like the Way prayer should be. But nobody teaches.
Debra Johnson34:01
Yeah, no, I'm with you. Exactly. And that's, that's what I want to tell people because there's so many different powerful belief systems out there that meditation just it's like the peanut butter and jelly just smashed it together. And it's perfect.
Amanda Huffman34:14
Yeah. Because whenever I would pray and I would get distracted, I'd be like, Oh, man, I suck at praying. And then I was like, oh, like human. It's not that it's bad. That's just right, who you are. Like, if you get distracted while you're praying. Like, that's not like something that you should be like, Oh, I suck. Like, that's what I love about meditation. They're like, Did you get distracted Now come back. Yeah, exactly.
Debra Johnson34:39
And then they say, well, it's okay. Whatever. If your thoughts come, just let them pass.I love it.
Amanda Huffman34:46
It's like the weirdest thing. I don't know how to put into words, but like, it's the healing thing that I need. Yeah, that helped me in my journey. And so if you are listening and you're like what I knew The app 10% but you have let's talk more about your program because I want to learn more about how you're helping women veterans. Sure. Yeah.
Debra Johnson35:08
I Well, first I use insight timer for my meditations, I really enjoy inside timer. But I started the nonprofit is called enlightened to veterans, hence the name enlightened because we can all be enlightened at some point of our time on this planet. But I started the nonprofit last year. So I focus on workshops, to teach veterans how to meditate and how to meet meet yourself in meditation. So I do guided meditations. And then the retreats that we have a four day all women's retreat next year on May 11. And that's at no cost to the veteran, it's completely swagged out it's it's at, I can't say where it is yet, because we haven't put the deposit down. But it's in the Rocky Mountains at a an energy all around the United States, there's some energy fields that are much stronger than other places. And it's held in one of the energy fields that I'm looking forward to working with. So helping with women veterans, and then after they come from the retreat, they they pretty much have a life coach for the rest of their life. So after we finish the four day retreat that they go on, it's all based on meditation, Tai Chi, we're going to do some jewelry making like this is a Mala. I don't know if you can see it. But we're going to be able to create some molars just some things that they can they some tools that they can bring home to help them and then they always have a life coach they're on forward with with whatever they need. If they need meditation, support, job support, pretty much we're a one stop shop for resources.
Amanda Huffman36:41
That sounds amazing. And we'll have links to everything in the show notes. I mean, I want to go I would
Debra Johnson36:46
love for you to go there events on Facebook right now. And we need 20 ladies,
Amanda Huffman36:50
so you can do one of them. Yeah, I'm gonna get connected with you. I'm really excited. I just, it's just been life changing the meditation, which Yeah, totally.
Debra Johnson37:01
And it's gonna change so many women veterans, their lives, it's just gonna change their life that they don't have to feel imprisoned in their brain. And I feel like that's the most powerful part is that when I was dealing with my PTSD, you know, I just felt imprisoned. Like I just I was just stuck in a negative space. And meditation was my key out. Yeah, powerful stuff.
Amanda Huffman37:23
It is. I mean, I, when I started, I think one of the first courses was like, is this really worth doing? I don't know it, but I was like, whatever. I'll do this. wants me to do it. And yeah, 100 days into, I can't explain it. But I like now. I'm like, I look forward to it every evening, because I'm like, I need this. Yeah. Well, yeah. So we'll have all the links in the show notes. And my last question is, what advice would you give to young women who are considering joining the military,
Debra Johnson37:56
don't quit and do the job. You want to do not let the recruiter sway you? And just believe in yourself? never quit?
Amanda Huffman38:04
Yeah, don't quit. I love
Debra Johnson38:06
that. There's so many women who are becoming Rangers. And I think there's some women in the seal program. Forgive me for not being educated. But these women are blowing statistics out of the water and you could be one of them. Just try hard and do not quit.
Amanda Huffman38:20
Yeah, I love that. That's great advice. Thank you. Thank you so much for your time and for being on the podcast. I'm really glad we got to do this interview. Thank you were listening to this week's episode of women of the military podcast. Do you love all things women in the military podcast become a subscriber so you never miss an episode and consider leaving a review. It really helps people find the podcast and helps the podcast to grow. Are you still listening? You could be a part of the mission of telling the stories of military women by joining me on patreon@patreon.com slash women of the military or you can order my book women of the military on Amazon. Every dollar helps to continue the work I am doing. Are you a business owner? Do you want to get your product or service in front of the women of the military podcast audience get in touch with a woman of the military podcast team to learn more all the links on how you can support women military podcasts are located in the show notes. Thanks again for listening and for your support.Amanda Huffman00:00
Welcome to Episode 133 of the women in the military podcasts. This week my guest is Debra Johnson the last two weeks of boot camp for Debrah we're after September 11. And while she expected the military to be a way for her to pay for college when September 11 happened, she felt that she had found her purpose she completed tech school and went back home to go to school work and serve in the National Guard. Then in 2003, she was activated to work active duty at Robins Air Force Base, she was ready to leave the military behind at the end of her service commitment, but was stopped lost and sent on a deployment being a military brat she was able to pick herself up and accept the challenge that the military laid in front of her. She said the deployment wasn't that bad. And then she was raped. The army knew that there was something wrong because she stopped talking and eating and they couldn't figure out what's happening. So they decided to send her to Baghdad, and she began to get help. But a soldier came in and killed her psychiatrists and four other members and she was hiding in her room hoping she wouldn't die. These two incidents happen within a week of each other and her body couldn't cope. The army didn't really know what to do, and she was eventually separated from the military with PTSD. She was using destructive coping mechanisms to help her but she was spiraling out of control. But then she found out she was pregnant. And when she found out she was pregnant, she stopped drinking and began to find healing through the love she had for her child. A few years later, she found her life spiraling again. And she started to get help through counseling. One of the recommendations was to start a daily meditation practice, which she did, and that has led her to start a nonprofit called enlightened veterans, and they are working to have their first all day women retreat, but it's still up in the air due to COVID. But you can go to their websites, which I'll link to in the show notes to learn more about what they're doing. I am a strong supporter of meditation to help with PTSD. And that comes out just a little bit in this podcast interview. So I really hope you enjoy this episode, and let's get started. You're listening to season three of the woman on the military podcast Here you will find the real stories of female servicemembers. I'm Amanda Huffman, I am an Air Force veteran, military spouse and mom. I created women in the military podcast in 2019. As a place to share the stories of female service members past and present, with the goal of finding the heart of the story, while uncovering the triumphs and challenges women face while serving in the military. If you want to be encouraged by the stories of military women and be inspired to change the world, keep tuned for this latest episode of women on the military.
Graciela Tiscareno-Sato 03:03
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Amanda Huffman04:08
Let's get back to the show. Welcome to the podcast. I'm excited to have you here. Deborah.
Debra Johnson04:13
So excited to be here.
Amanda Huffman04:14
So let's start with why did you decide to join the military?
Debra Johnson04:18
To go get a college degree. My parents made it very clear to me when I was young that they were not paying for college. And if I wanted to continue my education that I would have to find another way and so the military was that other way.
Amanda Huffman04:31
So you decided to join the military because you needed money for college? Yeah. How did you pick which branch of the military to join?
Debra Johnson04:39
My dad was career Army. So, Army was really the only choice when it came to which branches I didn't even go talk to anyone else besides the army recruiter. I just felt like I was connected to my dad in that way.
Amanda Huffman04:53
That makes sense. So you're an army brat?
Debra Johnson04:55
Yes. moved around quite a bit born in Massachusetts and moved around everywhere else. My entire life?
Amanda Huffman05:02
And do you think that your parents said that it? Did they not have money for college or they wanted to push you toward the military?
Debra Johnson05:09
No, it was just something that they said if you want to pursue it, then you need to pay for it. And I completely respected that. But this is pre 911. So this was at where the military was at a different a very different position. I should say. I was in basic training when I heard about 911. So I was looking for college in the beginning. And then I just found out that this was my purpose. Wow.
Amanda Huffman05:31
So you're at basic training during September 11? Yes, I
Debra Johnson05:35
was in the grenade range when it happened. And they pulled us all aside and asked anybody if they were in the areas that were affected, and then the rest of us got briefed afterwards.
Amanda Huffman05:46
So that'd be kind of an interesting experience. Because I mean, in a way, when you're at boot camp, you're kind of like sheltered from the world. But obviously, that was such a big event, and it had an impact on your life going forward. That
Debra Johnson06:00
Yeah, basic training was so different after that. Our particular drill sergeant was from the Desert Storm era. So it felt like he was trying to prepare us to go to war because he said, you know, such such and such percentage is not going to come back home. You all are going overseas, you have to be prepared for this. So it the training just intensified.
Amanda Huffman06:21
And how many weeks into boot camp? Were you when that happened? Ooh, good
Debra Johnson06:25
question. I want to say week six,
Amanda Huffman06:28
and how many weeks is eight weeks? Eight weeks? Oh, here she is. We're almost done. Almost done
Debra Johnson06:34
with a locked, they locked the army base down for graduation. Our parents, my parents were able to come thank goodness, but we weren't allowed off base or anything like that. And then we just headed straight for our AI t assignments.
Amanda Huffman06:46
So what was your career field? And where did you go?
Debra Johnson06:49
I went to Fort Lee Virginia and I was 92, Yankee logistics, logistics, that's such an important career field in the army. It is and it's and it's got so many different facets to it. You know, we have to deal with weapons and gear and trucks and and people and you know, just just so many aspects of logistics that I just really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed doing my job. That's awesome.
Amanda Huffman07:14
So how long were you at tech school?
Debra Johnson07:17
I was there for nine weeks? Yes, nine weeks, and then we got to go home?
Amanda Huffman07:23
And did you go home on leave, and then went to your next assignment?
Debra Johnson07:26
Well, I was an active duty I was I signed up National Guard.
Amanda Huffman07:29
Okay,
Debra Johnson07:30
so I went back to my Well, I went to a unit in Georgia. And it was a transportation unit. So I got to learn how to be a truck driver, while also doing my job as a 92. Yankee.
Amanda Huffman07:43
How interesting. So it was your plan to go to school while you were doing National Guard and army?
Debra Johnson07:50
Yeah, that was the plan started school in 2002. And I finally graduated in 2012.
Amanda Huffman07:58
Well, you graduated. That's all that really matters, right?
08:01
Amen. Sister. Amen. I went out and I got my master's degree also. So the military has definitely taken care of my education.
Amanda Huffman08:09
That's awesome. Congratulations.
Debra Johnson08:11
Thank you.
Amanda Huffman08:12
So was there anything in the military that caused your education to get a little off track like did they did you go on deployment? Or did you have to go on training and let's talk about that?
Debra Johnson08:23
Yeah, we did a stateside deployment. Our transportation company was set up to go to Robins Air Force Base in Georgia, we were going to help the security forces on Robins Air Force Base. And we did that for two years. And so while I was there doing that home side assignment, I was doing some college there. And then when I got out in 2005, I just didn't continue my education until 2010.
Amanda Huffman08:48
So you said that you were home station deployed? Were you like active duty, but you know how it gets complicated, or a little more what that means for you as a national guardsmen?
Debra Johnson09:03
Yeah, as the National Guardsmen we were called up to active duty orders, and we were considered active duty for the two years. While I was first it was first that we got activated for one year to Robins Air Force Base. So it was kind of like a deployment. We had to do it, but it was just stateside because we didn't have enough vehicles to help in Iraq or Afghanistan. So basically, we were non deployable, non deployable unit. So yeah, we joined the Air Force Base on Robins air force base for two years, and it was one of the most memorable times in my life. I really, really enjoyed it.
Amanda Huffman09:36
And so was, I mean, that was kind of an unexpected sweat. Yeah. Because you're like going to school and in the National Guard, and then all of a sudden, they're like, and now you're active duty and you're going and how far away from you're in Georgia, obviously because you're in the National Guard. But how far was it to Robbins to from where you were,
Debra Johnson09:57
it was only two hours. Not too Not too bad they they gave us houses to live in. I mean, the Air Force really knows how to treat you. So they Yeah, it was really amazing.
Amanda Huffman10:08
Yeah, but it's two hours. It's not like you can just continue your normal life.
Debra Johnson10:12
Right? No, no.
Amanda Huffman10:13
yeah, it was like a disruption because you had to move and like, figure out a new plan forward but..
10:20
Right and then getting acclimated to being on a Airforce Base with other active duty soldiers. So all of us national gardeners, we're not used to saluting every time we see a captain or you know, just we had to get acclimated to being on active duty and then for being on active duty for those two years. Then when we went home, there were several of us that said that we felt kind of empty, because we had we got we got so much from being there and helping Robins Air Force Base that it was just it was life changing in you know, in positive and negative ways, but mostly positive.
Amanda Huffman10:57
Yeah. So let's talk a little bit more about both the positives and the negatives that you experienced doing that. And like you said, Robbins, and I just like, oh, Air Force, and I didn't even like cross. I was like, Oh, yeah, you were in the RV. So that's kind of it's so fascinating, the different stories and experiences people have cuz you would think, Well, that doesn't make sense. But that's what you did. So let's talk about the the challenges and the good things positives and the negatives.
11:28
Okay, positives, being on active duty, the money, of course, is really great, because we don't have to pay rent or obviously living rent free in these houses. So a lot of us had a lot of monetary gains, and the camaraderie. I really enjoyed hanging out with ourselves as a unit, we would do a lot of cookouts a lot of like we would play dominoes. And just just the camaraderie in itself is the one thing that I miss so dearly. And the positive is that I got to be on active duty. And I got to experience that type of lifestyle, because it's definitely different coming from a National Guard soldier to an active duty soldier. So it's, it was a wake up call, for sure.
Amanda Huffman12:09
And let's talk a little bit about like the challenges or the hard parts.
Debra Johnson12:12
Sure. Yeah, the hard part for me personally, and my platoon sergeant would probably agree was that I was I found it very difficult to keep my military composure and to not have an opinion. In the civilian side, I was a store manager for McDonald's. So I had experience I had leadership experience, significant amount of leadership experience. And when there was a lack of leadership in the unit, or in the office of where I served, it was very difficult, it was very difficult to bite my tongue. So that was the hardest part was knowing my civilian leadership skills could help in a scenario, but my rank being an e4, it caused me not to be in that conversation whatsoever, despite my civilian experience. So I felt like I just I just, it's it was a, it was a hard thing to manage.
Amanda Huffman13:03
Yeah, that makes sense. And I if you're listening, and you don't really understand like the military structure, you will be like, but you have a good idea that makes sense. But the way the military is broken up, it's based on like rank and rank is like the most important thing and the National Guard. And the reserves are kind of unique, because you have that civilian side, and you also have the military side. And then on active duty. It's like your job is to do whatever the military tells you. And so it's an interesting dynamic of making that switch.
Debra Johnson13:34
But it was fun. It was fun. It was a great experience. And I really, I really enjoyed it as well. My favorite military experience was being Robins Air Force Base, they just treated us so well. And they showed us so much respect the security forces just just so much respect, I love it.
Amanda Huffman13:50
That's awesome to hear that you have that joint experience that you got to go on duty. And because you're an active duty for so long, you qualify for like GI Bill and everything like that. Right.
Debra Johnson14:02
So I spent probably 18 months doing school there. So I got most of my core classes done while I was in route Robins Air Force Base,
Amanda Huffman14:10
And then you decided to leave army.
14:14
Well, this is this is kind of a funny new scenario. I came home and they did say that I didn't have to go to a couple of drills, but I only had drills meaning weekends where you're supposed to serve but I only had three weekends left until I was ETS thing which is exiting the military. So I when I signed up for my contract I signed up for six years by two years. And so the six years were serving in the National Guard and then the two years afterwards was two years basically if you get called up you get assigned to active duty so you basically on a list. So I got orders to go to Iraq one month before I was supposed to completely get out of the military be done with my my whole session. But yeah, that's how I found out I was going to Iraq. Wow, it was crazy.
Amanda Huffman15:02
You were like in the process of transitioning and figuring out the next phase. And they're like, and by the way, going to Iraq.
15:09
Yeah. And I found out by a packet of orders that was sitting on my front desk when I got off of work. So to me, I was done with the military. I was I did my service, I did everything I needed to do. And then, you know, I got orders in July to go to Iraq. And I was supposed to report to Fort Jackson on August 4, so I had 30 days to prepare to go to Iraq.
Amanda Huffman15:33
Wow, that's crazy.
Debra Johnson15:35
It was quite a shock.
Amanda Huffman15:37
I mean, it's hard when you're on duty, I think I had about 30 days or so when I found out about my deployment, but like I was active duty. And so it was, it was different. Like, I know, a deployment was coming. It just it was like, yeah, it's here. We know what it is. And like, No, you have to do the checklist. But if you are like getting out of the military, and active duty getting out of the guard, and then it's like.
16:02
I was done. I mean, you know, in my mind, I had served my purpose. But the army had other plans,
Amanda Huffman16:09
apparently. So that was like a whirlwind of crazy, I'm guessing in that 30 days to get ready to go.
Debra Johnson16:17
But it only took me a couple of days to accept it.
Amanda Huffman16:19
I was just gonna ask that question. I was gonna say, like, when you arrived, were you ready? Did you or so it's out. So you were you processed it and you were like, Okay, this is what I'm going to do. And I wonder if military brat had anything to do with that?
Debra Johnson16:35
I think that's a good comment to build up of because it took me a couple of days for the wow factor. But then it was like, Okay, well, this, I'm in the military. I'm in the army. This is what I have to do. This is what I'm what needs to get done. And I have to be gone. But it was just like, it's just it's like my robotic memory. Just kick kicked back in.
Amanda Huffman16:55
Yeah, it makes sense. My son's a military brat. And we couldn't do something. And he was like, Oh, that's because Daddy has this and none of that. And it was just like, he just accept normal, right? He was telling my mom and my mom was like, it was so funny, because he was like, well, this is this and this. And it was just like he and he's seven. And he already like, you know, he just understands this is how I've been. And that's awesome. Yeah, I bet that had so much to do. You're a military brat. And you're like, Oh, yes. You forward,
17:30
we got to do?
Amanda Huffman17:33
Well, I mean, at least you were like in the right mental capacity to go to deployment and not like, resentful, and hating life and
Debra Johnson17:41
totally embrace the opportunity with open arms. I said, This is what, you know, I felt honored. When I was at Fort Jackson, I really felt honored because some people during a wartime scenario like my dad, he was in the military during I want to it was it. Yeah, it was Vietnam. And he volunteered. And one month after he was actually in California to try to go over and the war ended. So he has that time period of being in the military, and never deploying, so I was happy that I could at least be in the military and deploy, because most soldiers don't get that opportunity. I know that sounds kind of weird, but a lot of people take pride in being deployed at least once in their career.
Amanda Huffman18:29
Yeah, it's true. It's It's interesting how it works, that sometimes people just don't ever get called up especially like they want to deploy and they can't.
Debra Johnson18:38
Right, there's so many instances with people who can't deploy.
Amanda Huffman18:41
So let's talk a little bit about your deployment
18:43
I'll just take it start to finish, if you want me to kind of go brief, though. So I get to Fort Jackson. And they give us a couple of weeks of time to where we're re acclimating with military. So we're taking classes on what the rank structure is, how the uniform is supposed to look just just pretty much given us a rocket amount of time to be soldiers again. And then after that they sent us to Fort Lee or they sent people there were more than just me, obviously. So they had people go back to their AI t locations to continue to train for two weeks on their job and to kind of get re acclimated to their jobs and things of that nature. So after the training at Fort Lee, I was then connected to a cab unit in Wisconsin. And this was the unit that I was going to deploy with. So that training was a little different. I was stepping into my job more, but we were also getting trained to go to Iraq like translation, what to do in different scenarios, you know, just overseas deployment training, and that lasted about two or three months and we deployed to Iraq in October. So we we got there. We relieved the unit that was there. We were given instructions on what we were supposed Do and then we just began to set up shop and everything was going really well, I went on leave the leave process was ridiculous if you've ever been on leave with being overseas, that was a conundrum in itself. But I really enjoyed working in logistics, I enjoyed having the camaraderie back, I really missed that I missed it more than I thought I knew. But our job, quote unquote job was to transport VIPs, from the Baghdad International Airport to other locations. So basically, we provided security for VIPs in that area, and I got to work with all of the soldiers that wish is the one thing I do love about logistics is that I can in anything in a unit, you know your admin, because your admin will take care of you leave, and then your logistics support, because then you know, they'll always take care of you and do what you need to do. So it was really interesting. It was it was those were the positives, the constant bombs, I want to say I wouldn't call them bombs. I don't I don't know how to say that. But we weren't, I don't even know, I don't even know if we were physically under attack or we weren't. Because the noises like if we were being attacked, were so common that I guess I got used to it, if that makes any sense. And then in around May, I was I was raped in country. So after that situation happened. I was sent to a base psychologist and they took me off of all duties and took me as a psychologist to see what was going on with me. I didn't tell anyone what happened. But they were just trying to figure out what's wrong with me. I was completely mute, I stopped eating. They took away my weapon because I said I wanted to kill myself or someone else. And I guess they couldn't get through to me with the psychologist that was on our FOB. So I got moved to the one at Baghdad International Airport. And I was impatient there. And while I was impatient, there was a massive shooting from an American soldier who shot a psychiatrist, and four other members that were in the building. And I was in the building as well. So there were two traumatic instances that happened while I was overseas that I did not anticipate. And so after the shooting happened, I just completely shut down and I wanted to go home. That's all I kept saying, I just want to go home, I want to go home, I'm done here. I want to go home. And they sent me to Germany to out process through there. And I lost probably 35 pounds, I'd say yeah, 30 pounds. In the week there, I was vomiting. I wasn't I wasn't leaving my room, my body was shutting down. And it was just stress was taking over my body. And I didn't have control of it anymore. So needless to say, I finally got home. And I was at Fort Benning and I stayed there about 18 months trying different therapies and different ways of coping, trying to figure out what the heck was wrong with me. And then they finally decided that I was no longer allowed in the military with my PTSD. So I was discharged in March 2010. So that's the story.
Amanda Huffman23:18
I'm so sorry, that happened. A lot of my like all my PTSD. I didn't wasn't rape, but I was treated really badly by team members. And when I talk about my story and like the hurt and the pain, it didn't come from the enemy. It came from the people who were inside the wire with me. So I can I just it's just so hard to hear because it's it's the truth is that they're like women on the base like they are they are raped and like it's like the military doesn't know how to deal with it. And it's it's really it's really sad. And when you were with the psychiatrists were they able to figure out like what was causing you or were you like locked down and you wouldn't talk to anyone so they didn't weren't able to figure out what had caused your shift?
Debra Johnson24:07
Well, I talked to the doctorabout being raped, and he was the one giving me medications and he was the doctor that was shot inside the mental health facility that year. Him and four other people. Because when you because when you go into the, the inpatient facility, they take your weapon from you. So all of us patients were disarmed. And somebody comes through with his M16. And he starts shooting everybody. I mean, all we could do was run I was in my room hiding and praying. It was insane.
Amanda Huffman24:41
It is insane. Wow.
24:43
So needless to say I couldn't know because after so I opened up to the doctor. I tell him what happened. He gets shot and dies. Rip I love you. But then after that, it's like no, everything was focused on the shooting. Nobody knew really focused on why were you there in the first place, everything went back to the shooting. Right? So my, my MST got swept under the rug in a sense.
Amanda Huffman25:08
Yeah. Which it's odd that they, I mean, I understand like why they focus so much on the shooting because like, then you wanted to go home and like that was really traumatic, but the fact that they were like, let's not even figure out why you were there in the first place because you're there like, maybe we should fix what happened first and then we can figure out the secondary because I feel like you can't fix the secondary trauma without fixing the first trauma.
Debra Johnson25:34
Exactly. And and when people ask me, which didn't because that's that was one of the famous questions. Which traumatic instance is more, which one affects you more, I was just like, they happened within a week of each other. I have no idea what's happening right now. I have no idea what's going on my brain. So how can I identify which one is more severe than the other?
Amanda Huffman25:54
I have no idea. Because they are both severe.
Debra Johnson25:57
Right? Exactly.
Amanda Huffman25:59
I don't I mean, in a way, they both have like equal trauma, like I don't know how you would be able to answer, especially going through the trauma, like maybe years later, you could look back and like but going through it, I don't know.
Debra Johnson26:14
That's really hard. And that was one of the big problems I had at the W TV, it was called the Warrior Transition battalion. And I would get really upset when people would ask me that question, because I'm like, I don't know, how am I supposed to know if I knew all? If I had all the answers, I would be sitting in your seat and you would be sitting in mind stop asking me that ignorant question. And I understand that mental health professionals, they have to read what's on the screen, and they have to get the answers, you know, that they that they need to get. But as the patient I was really frustrated that I felt more like a number, like if I choose this path, then you're going to be considered this or if you choose this path, and you're going to be considered this. And it was it was exhausting.
Amanda Huffman26:55
Instead of treating you like a person they're treating you like a person. I can see signs of when I got home from my deployment where I was like asking for help. Like, first I went to a counselor, she told me he'll be fine, just adjust back to normal life. And then second, I went to like the mental health evaluation. And I told the tech about my struggles and like what I was having, and then she's like, you need to tell the doctor that and I was like, Oh, crap. And so I didn't tell the doctor cuz he didn't ask me the same questions, right? I didn't feel comfortable telling a man I told this woman, nurse tech. And she never told anyone and like, I feel like when you like get the courage to tell someone something that's going on, like in your mind, mentally, you're not going to repeat it 30 seconds later to another person's like, Why do I have to talk to people? If you're not even going to do anything with the information? Like you want to tell the doctor once you went out? This is what the girl told me. Now you need to like find out more on do your job, you're right.
Debra Johnson27:56
She doesn't feel comfortable with you. I mean, understand. I get it.
Amanda Huffman28:01
Yeah. Well, I'm so sorry. Well, is there a healing? I'm assuming there is a healing journey, because you're here now and you're talking about it. So can we talk a little bit about once you got out of the army system, how you were able to move forward?
28:16
Sure. When I get out in 2010, I was coping negatively. I was drinking every day, going to the bars every day, not really caring about anything. I had no care in the world. I lived a very wild and rambunctious life, I would say up until the beginning of 2011. When I became pregnant with my son, he is seven, I stopped drinking, I stopped going out and partying. I stopped everything. When I found out I was pregnant. And once I had him I feel like I just it was like a breath of fresh air. It's the it was the breath of fresh air that I needed. It was the love that I wasn't giving myself. So I was able to love him and loving him was allowing me to love myself. So I started working out I just took care of him. He was my priority. And I got back together with the guy that I had lost without when I was in Iraq. I actually lost a relationship while I was there. I sent him a dear john letter that I don't even remember writing. So I assuming that it was in one of those traumatic instances that was going on. But I had my son was working out my me and my husband, my still husband got married in. Let's see, what am I skipping? Oh, so after I had my son I started taking better care of myself and I had a strong pull to start meditating. I had no idea how to meditate. Why meditate? I have no idea but everything every time I heard meditation, I'm like, yeah, that is calling me for some reason. So I took a couple of years of trying to lose weight being a mom being a wife, when we got married in 2014 and And then I started to sense that life was kind of getting out of balance again, because I felt like it was my new norm, but I was pushing against change. But as I continued, I still struggled with depression. And I still hadn't dealt with any of my trauma. Even after the time I spent on Fort Benning, I still hadn't even opened, I mean, the door was open, but there was so much stuff in that door to deal with. It's just like a kept close knit back. I'm like, oh, I'll deal with that messy closet. Later, I started going to weekly treatments at a Jewish center, it was called jfcs. And I would go there once a week with my son, my son was then three at the time, and he was getting occupational therapy while I was getting therapy. And I did that for about a year, I really enjoyed that. She taught me that if I'm going to build a life, I need to start at the bottom with the foundation. And I started with the foundation of brushing my teeth, washing my face, take my meds, and that was it. Like those were how simple my goals were at that point in time. And that really helped with my mood, it helped with the way I was handling my life. And then we moved to Colorado, and still that meditation because when I left my therapist in Atlanta, she said just believe have something to believe in. Because I didn't really understand my relationship with God at that time. So I took her to heart and I said, You know what, that's my first Sunday here in Denver, which I currently live. And I said, All right, I'm gonna find something to believe in. What do I believe? I believe there's a God, I believe that all of us are pieces of God, where do I go with this? So my son and I went on a drive. And we pulled up to a spiritual sense, I guess, I guess. So it this way I can say it, and I started meditating. So this was 2015. By now, so 2015. So that's when I started meditating about five years ago, in and out, not knowing what meditation is just sitting down and trying to get my thoughts to calm. That's what I thought meditation was. But I learned throughout the years, that is a lot different. But I should say now and 2020, I am still meditating. And I started a nonprofit to help women veterans get that juiciness of a belief system. It doesn't have to be the same as mine. But just something to believe in something to talk to something to. And that's what I think meditation is meditation gets you to meet you there meet you there in that space and shows you what your God is, and aligns you with that. So that's what I take pride in nowadays.
Amanda Huffman32:40
Yeah, my mom got me to start meditating in January. And then I kind of fell off the wagon. And then I started a challenge this summer, and today actually is 100 days of meditating. And it's like, so weird, because it's like the thing that I needed, but I had no idea and it's exactly you can suck at it. And it doesn't matter. You know, like, you can have a good meditation, you got a bad meditation doesn't matter. But like, yeah, my mom told me about it, because she heard that, like, veterans were using it to deal with PTSD. And I was like, whatever, Mom, you're crazy, right? And like now that I'm like, 100 days in the first time, I did it for about 20 days. And like, I could tell that it was good. But like now that I'm 100 days in, like, I need that 1015 minutes, at the end of every day, I do it in the evening, before I go to bed. That was I had to find the time that were for me, but I do it in the evening before I go to bed. And it's just like this, like all my thoughts, and then I stop and like I just I can see them like the waterfall rushing past and like, and that's good stuff. And like my faith is I'm a Christian. And I always kind of felt like meditation. It's not but it's like prayer. Like the Way prayer should be. But nobody teaches.
Debra Johnson34:01
Yeah, no, I'm with you. Exactly. And that's, that's what I want to tell people because there's so many different powerful belief systems out there that meditation just it's like the peanut butter and jelly just smashed it together. And it's perfect.
Amanda Huffman34:14
Yeah. Because whenever I would pray and I would get distracted, I'd be like, Oh, man, I suck at praying. And then I was like, oh, like human. It's not that it's bad. That's just right, who you are. Like, if you get distracted while you're praying. Like, that's not like something that you should be like, Oh, I suck. Like, that's what I love about meditation. They're like, Did you get distracted Now come back. Yeah, exactly.
Debra Johnson34:39
And then they say, well, it's okay. Whatever. If your thoughts come, just let them pass.I love it.
Amanda Huffman34:46
It's like the weirdest thing. I don't know how to put into words, but like, it's the healing thing that I need. Yeah, that helped me in my journey. And so if you are listening and you're like what I knew The app 10% but you have let's talk more about your program because I want to learn more about how you're helping women veterans. Sure. Yeah.
Debra Johnson35:08
I Well, first I use insight timer for my meditations, I really enjoy inside timer. But I started the nonprofit is called enlightened to veterans, hence the name enlightened because we can all be enlightened at some point of our time on this planet. But I started the nonprofit last year. So I focus on workshops, to teach veterans how to meditate and how to meet meet yourself in meditation. So I do guided meditations. And then the retreats that we have a four day all women's retreat next year on May 11. And that's at no cost to the veteran, it's completely swagged out it's it's at, I can't say where it is yet, because we haven't put the deposit down. But it's in the Rocky Mountains at a an energy all around the United States, there's some energy fields that are much stronger than other places. And it's held in one of the energy fields that I'm looking forward to working with. So helping with women veterans, and then after they come from the retreat, they they pretty much have a life coach for the rest of their life. So after we finish the four day retreat that they go on, it's all based on meditation, Tai Chi, we're going to do some jewelry making like this is a Mala. I don't know if you can see it. But we're going to be able to create some molars just some things that they can they some tools that they can bring home to help them and then they always have a life coach they're on forward with with whatever they need. If they need meditation, support, job support, pretty much we're a one stop shop for resources.
Amanda Huffman36:41
That sounds amazing. And we'll have links to everything in the show notes. I mean, I want to go I would
Debra Johnson36:46
love for you to go there events on Facebook right now. And we need 20 ladies,
Amanda Huffman36:50
so you can do one of them. Yeah, I'm gonna get connected with you. I'm really excited. I just, it's just been life changing the meditation, which Yeah, totally.
Debra Johnson37:01
And it's gonna change so many women veterans, their lives, it's just gonna change their life that they don't have to feel imprisoned in their brain. And I feel like that's the most powerful part is that when I was dealing with my PTSD, you know, I just felt imprisoned. Like I just I was just stuck in a negative space. And meditation was my key out. Yeah, powerful stuff.
Amanda Huffman37:23
It is. I mean, I, when I started, I think one of the first courses was like, is this really worth doing? I don't know it, but I was like, whatever. I'll do this. wants me to do it. And yeah, 100 days into, I can't explain it. But I like now. I'm like, I look forward to it every evening, because I'm like, I need this. Yeah. Well, yeah. So we'll have all the links in the show notes. And my last question is, what advice would you give to young women who are considering joining the military,
Debra Johnson37:56
don't quit and do the job. You want to do not let the recruiter sway you? And just believe in yourself? never quit?
Amanda Huffman38:04
Yeah, don't quit. I love
Debra Johnson38:06
that. There's so many women who are becoming Rangers. And I think there's some women in the seal program. Forgive me for not being educated. But these women are blowing statistics out of the water and you could be one of them. Just try hard and do not quit.
Amanda Huffman38:20
Yeah, I love that. That's great advice. Thank you. Thank you so much for your time and for being on the podcast. I'm really glad we got to do this interview. Thank you were listening to this week's episode of women of the military podcast. Do you love all things women in the military podcast become a subscriber so you never miss an episode and consider leaving a review. It really helps people find the podcast and helps the podcast to grow. Are you still listening? You could be a part of the mission of telling the stories of military women by joining me on patreon@patreon.com slash women of the military or you can order my book women of the military on Amazon. Every dollar helps to continue the work I am doing. Are you a business owner? Do you want to get your product or service in front of the women of the military podcast audience get in touch with a woman of the military podcast team to learn more all the links on how you can support women military podcasts are located in the show notes. Thanks again for listening and for your support.