What does it take to be an Army Pathfinder? Kelly White graduated from Army Pathfinder School to become the only woman in the Army National Guard to hold the certification. She began her career with the PA National Guard in 2009 after a year of school. Today she continues to serve alongside her husband in the PA National Guard.
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Check out the full show notes at https://www.airmantomom.com/2021/08/army-pathfinder/
Check out the full transcript here.
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Welcome to Episode 149 of the women of the military podcast. This week my guest is Kelly white. Kelly white graduated from army Pathfinder school to become the only woman in the Army National Guard in Pennsylvania to hold the certification. She began her career with the Pennsylvania National Guard in 2009. After a year of school today, she continues to serve alongside her husband in the Pennsylvania Army National Guard. At the time that we recorded this episode. It was up in the air if the funding required for the capital assistance that the National Guard provided would be paid back to the National Guard, and they were worried they were gonna run out of funding for August and September. And so we talked about it a little bit in this episode, but now, it's in the future. On July 29, Congress passed an emergency security funding for Capitol Police and National Guard. The bill also included money for Afghan special visa program, and it was almost unanimous in the house with only 11 members voting against it. And it was unanimous in the Senate. So I'll put a link in the show notes to the bill if you're interested in learning more about it, but I just wanted to provide that little update because we talked about it later. And want to let you know what happened on Capitol Hill It is another great interview. So let's get started. You're listening to season three of the women on the military podcast Here you will find the real stories of female servicemembers. I'm Amanda Huffman, I am an Air Force veteran, military spouse and Mom. I created women of the military podcast in 2019. As a place to share the stories of female service members past and present, with the goal of finding the heart of the story while uncovering the triumphs and challenges women face while serving in the military. If you want to be encouraged by the stories of military women and be inspired to change the world. Keep tuned for this latest episode of women on the military. Women on the military podcast we'd like to thank Sabio coding boot camp for sponsoring this week's episode. Sabio coding boot camp is a top ranked coding boot camp that is 100% dedicated to helping smart and highly motivated individuals become exceptional software engineers visit their website atwww.sabio.la to learn how you may be able to use your GI Bill benefits to train at savea your tuition and monthly BAH stipend may be paid during your training period. They are also 100% committed and helping you find your first job in tech. So don't forget to head over to www.sabio.la to learn more. And now let's get started with this week's interview. Welcome to the show Kelly, I'm excited to have you here.
Thanks for having me. Amanda. I'm really excited to talk to you today.
So let's start the interview with Why did you decide to join the military?
I'd like to say I have the typical, why did I join but I guess it's a little bit atypical. I always thought about it in high school. And I thought that the military was like maybe something that everybody who has a wife should do. I was very patriotic at that point in time. But if you were to ask anybody went to high school with that I would be in the military, they would laugh at you. I was not athletic I was not into a bunch of clubs. I worked all the time. I was social a little bit but not crazy. But then I went to college. And after the first semester, I discovered how expensive it was. Also, back in high school. I had of course a boyfriend who did not want me to join the military. During college. I was no longer with this guy. And I said you know what, it's time for me to join the National Guard. Sounds like something I could totally get into. And I was very much like woman powered at that point in time. I like to break barriers and do the the manly things, but be good at it. So I called my recruiter and I was probably the easiest recruit he's had in a while. And I was like, Alright, when can I go to maps and so we filled everything out. I left for maps and like three days and stayed the night in Pittsburgh there and enlisted and then I got back and then I told my family that I enlisted so I didn't even tell my mom. She was like What have you been for a week? And then I told her that I enlisted and she was not exactly happy but now she realizes how much it's helped me that she's very proud of me now. I enlisted as an eight Mike I scored really well my ASVAB and my recruiter static basically be you know anything I wanted to be. There was the wide open doors for me but I chose at 88M because it was a short training for it. And you know, just started Interesting. I like to drive trucks and it sounded like a cool thing to do. So I enlisted as an 88 Mike. And then the good thing about it, 88M is it opens the doors for anything. It's a theater MOS for any school I can go weren't from there that just I didn't realize that at the time, but it being an 88M has a lot of opportunity, especially in promotion and going to different school schools in the Army National Guard,
And 88M is a truck driver. Is that what your
Yes, sorry. Your Air Force in order means that 88M is a truck driver. Yep. So you, you are the one who moves all things.
Let's go back a little bit and talk about you said that you didn't tell your parents before you went to MEPS? .
Correct. Nobody knew that I enlisted until after I'd already done the oath and everything came home. And they're wondering where I was where I was for the past few days?
And do you think that you didn't tell anyone because like you said that your ex boyfriend in high school, didn't want you to join the military. And so you were like, I'm doing this, I'm not gonna let anyone talk me out of it.
Right. I didn't want anybody to give me that notion of like, maybe it's too dangerous for you. Or maybe you shouldn't be doing this or you're too smart. Or you should do something different. I thought about it. And it was something I wanted to do. And I'm so glad that I made that decision to go ahead and jump.
And what year was it when you joined? That was in 2009? The we were still at war. And it was a dangerous time.
Right? My mom was very nervous for me at the beginning, I have not deployed. So I have for me, it's unfortunate that I haven't deployed because I, you know, I would like to deploy and get to have that experience. You know, that's why we kind of joined the military and all that. But I have not had the opportunity.
You're a National Guard, right?
Correct. So the first three years of my initial enlistment, I spent your typical we call it m day, which is your drilling soldier seed drill one week, one week in a month, and then a few weeks in the summer for your annual training. But then I got a position. Like I said, I wanted the National Guard to be kind of like a hobby, like something I did on the weekend, and you suddenly get paid hobby, and it's a patriotic, paid hobby. But then I found a full time position within the National Guard. And since 2012, I've been full time in some capacity for the rest of my career thus far. So I started out in recruiting as a recruiting assistant in the recruiting storefront kind of office manager, I was hired on as a technician. And in the Army National Guard, the technician program is one of the best kept secrets in best opportunities, I believe. So it's a hybrid position, you're actually a federal civilian, but you're a uniformed civilian. So you have to maintain membership in the National Guard in order to be hired and have the job but you're paid on a sibling and pay scale and you get a federal benefits and everything. So you can actually collect two pensions if you were to retire from both programs, the federal and the state, you know, National Guard pension. Wow.
So that's what you did when you first after you finished boot camp and nit and started drooling.
Yes, then I applied for that job. And I got it. And I worked in recruiting for about three and a half years. And then after that I for a very short time, about six months, I had a civilian job. But then I got back into recruiting for a few months. And then I got a position at the field maintenance shop here in my town. And I will work to supply and parts and tools and that kind of thing. Field maintenance shop, they are unit here's a Stryker Brigade. So the shop works on strikers and wheeled vehicles and all that kind of stuff. So I was in charge of a couple million dollars worth of parts.
As a truck driver, you get to do a lot more than just drive trucks.
Correct. We have kind of a hand in everything we do. Everything is supply wise. So I know delivering supplies, and a lot about ammo, especially to make sure compatibilities because we're the ones who pack it and load it in and drive all the ammo. So we need to know a lot about it. We need to know a lot about supply and demand. So to make sure all of our troops are, you know, taken care of and fed and will have water and everything. Because I think truck driver and I'm like okay, so you drive trucks, but you're telling me all these stories, and I'm like, this doesn't even sound like truck driving. It's very much so I prefer to be called a logistician, because it's all logistics and figured out making sure what truck can go where with what capabilities with what types of equipment,
that is a better description. I like that. That makes more sense. I like that. So you switch from being a civilian on the weekday and then a guard member to active guard. What was that transition? Like? Was it like the same thing, just your uniform or was there more challenges?
I think when I became a technician, so you're when you're a technician, you're not active guard, you're still a technically an MMA soldier because during the Monday through Friday, you're still a federal civilian employee, but you're just wearing a uniform. And so it was a little bit like civilian life, you know, you had your set hours and all that. So it's not like active duties, or they can be like, well, we still need to just stay here at work, you know, at 430, we drop wrenches when we go home to Union job, you know, but it's still very much the military mindset. So you're around all of your guys who are in your unit with you, you talk about at you talk about training, you keep up on your online trainings, and your you know, things like that. So it made army life a lot easier, especially as the end day soldier.
Yeah, that's really interesting. And the different aspects of like, it's 430, we're going Oh, instead of the active duty, where it's like, No, you have to stay till the works then.
Right. And then from technician, then I, oh Gosh, I did a whole bunch of schools. So I was able to go to I tried out Air Assault, they told me a week before the air assault course that I had a slot for it, and I was not prepared. And I just gotten back from manual training. So I was like, not in super great shape. And I told him, I'll go but there's no guarantees that I'm gonna make it through this. And I was set on zero days, so and I was totally fine with that. It was it was a nice little experience for me to go to this class, but it's not on my goal list. But I did want to go to Pathfinder, and the tag at that time did not like to allow anybody to go to Pathfinder school without first trying aerosol. So I tried it didn't make it better. Okay, then I got the chance to go to Pathfinder in as difficult as the school is and prestigious, I absolutely loved it is such a great experience. And I learned so many cool things. But I'm really proud because last time I checked in this can completely be wrong now, but I was the only female Pathfinder in Pennsylvania.
Pathfinder. What is that?
So the Pathfinders, their motto is first and last out. So back in world war one or two, whatever, they were the ones who, you know, were dropped in the middle of the woods, and they had to walk around and find survey the land and sit and cut down the trees and figure out where they could then have troops and equipment and food and everything dropped into drop zones. They were the ones who coordinated with the air assets to bring in sling loaded system, like if they need to vehicles drop somewhere or personnel or they also talked to the helicopters. They've they set up helicopter landing zones, drop zones and sling load is their main priorities.
And is this one of the like combat jobs that wasn't open to women before 2016? Or has it always been open to women?
So Pathfinder is not a job. It's a special skill. So it's just a an additional skill identifier. So there's only a few MLS is that are able to go to Pathfinder school, it's very prestigious graduation rate is like 27%, less than 1% of the entire army is Pathfinder qualified, or at some some really low, low percentage. So it's a very prestigious accomplishment in the army.
Yeah, I haven't ever heard of it. And I guess it makes sense. If not, very many people in the army can do it. And then the graduation rate is so low, there's very few. And so if they were going to use your guys's skill that you learned what they like handpick a team to go overseas, and then scout out the land and fill in all the holes,
Kind of generally, each battalion may have a team but a brigade would have a Pathfinder team and they would just pull you from your job and the Pathfinder team would be for an example we would set up all the helicopter landing zones for aid stations. So for any air medivac and all that we would already establish you know we would look at the land layout and look at any obstacles or anything and put markers out for a helicopter landing zone we also our sling load certified to inspect them so any sling loaded equipment or fuel beloved's or water bullets or crates or cargo netting or anything like that were you know certified to inspect that sling load to make sure it's safe to travel on the air.
Oh, that's just so interesting. I didn't even know that specialty existed in the army. And it's pretty neat that you're one of few if not the only woman in Pennsylvania's National Guard that needs a qualification.
It's one of my very proud accomplishments. So after I went to that school, then I also want to master fitness trainer and one of the things that I actually developed a love and passion for because of joining the army is fitness and wellness and nutrition all know that so I love going to master fitness and it was a great education, great experience and it kind of catapulted me into my current Education track of becoming a yoga teacher. And then now I'm in my master's program for nutrition science.
And we're able to go back to school using your GI Bill?
So in the National Guard, you don't get a post 911 GI Bill unless you're deployed, or spend time on active duty, but we are entitled to the Montgomery GI Bill. So it's a stipend while you're in school. So I bought in on top of that, we also get state money for school, the education Assistance Program will pay tuition towards any state school or any other school you want to go to the same dollar amount.
Interesting. Yeah, I think I Well, I knew that there were like complicated rules with the garden reserve around the post 9/11 GI Bill, but I didn't understand that like that. The Montgomery GI Bill still available. Yep. Anybody who hasn't deployed, they, they're entitled to Montgomery GI Bill. So if in the future you got deployed, would it give you the GI Bill, or since you already use Montgomery, would that not
well, so after I was a technician for a while, then I applied for what we call AGR job. So then I was hired on as an active Guard Reserve, which is active duty, which enabled me to have the GI Bill, the post 911. So I actually do have the post 911 because of my AGR service. After I was a technician for so long, then I apply for AGR job and I was hired and the retention was a retention NCO for two battalions for Field Artillery Regiment, and then infantry Stryker battalion. So I handled all retention related questions, and I really loved that job. It was very fulfilling, I was able to help soldiers out by finding them the benefits that they needed, making sure they were getting their bonuses paid, making sure that they're getting their student loan repayment payments on time, I was able to help their families out by linking them up with all these different resources and, and I really loved that job. I was successful, I made a lot of friends. She got to do little, like really cool things during that job. But then I was resigned as recruiter. So here I am now as a recruiter.
So you kind of went back to the beginning. Because isn't that why you started in? That is here,
you're right. But now not just being a recruiting assistant or a storefront manager. I'm now an actual mission recruiter, I went through SQL four, which is recruiting school back in the spring. And the interesting thing about my current situation is I'm also right now six and a half months pregnant, so it makes the job a little bit more interesting.
Yeah, it's not that the military stereotype for sure. When people come in, they're like, Wait, you're a woman, you're pregnant.
I always hate being pregnant in the military is like the biggest kept secret, like, No, you just have babies and like spend time being pregnant.
Yeah, that's, I mean, there's not a lot of women. And then a lot of women either get out when they have kids. And so the amount of pregnant women that you see in the military is few and far between. And so
that's another thing why I started listening to your podcast, because I like to hear the stories about women who have stayed in because there's not a lot of resources out there for women in the military who have children and stay in, there's not very many books out there to read about support or anything, any experiences out there. So your podcast is very helpful.
That's great to hear. Yeah, it's amazing the different ways that the podcast can help different people from women who are looking to join who just want to hear about the experiences of women serving to women who are in who are looking advice from other women about their experience. So that's great to hear. So as we're recording this, I'm not going to go live till August, I just did an article for the website that I write for, which is clearance jobs about how the National Guard is has a budget shortfall of like 521 million, I don't know if I have enough, I know it's over 500 million, and the call and they're advocating Congress to pay it back or there's a chance that the training in August and September might be canceled. Have you heard anything about that?
Just real quick all thing. My the unit here that I was part of the infantry battalion, we actually supported all of that stuff that happened at the Capitol. And so our unit was there and like the the federal government owes the guard all this money for providing that support. And that's what they're they're advocating for.
Yeah, I'm more curious. Like so you guys know about it, obviously. I like I've heard that the drills being canceled. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's what the articles online said the and I was reading it and it was like, the more research I did, the more I was like, Oh my goodness, and like a lot of people don't even know that it's happening.
Right. The unfortunate some guys are very excited because they don't want to go to jail in August because it's summertime. But others rely on that paycheck and they rely on on you know that extra money in order to pay bills and support their families. So that's unfortunate
when I even read and one article that like, because you're going to drill, some people get healthcare off of that. And like, if you don't get a drill, then you actually will owe the government money because you're not going to drill and instead of them taking it out of your paycheck, they're gonna just charge you a bill. And so I was like, so the ripple effects, like some people might be like, yeah, to go to jail, but the people aren't getting money. People are not getting money to pay for their health care,
On top of that it affects their retirement too, because you're not getting those points to make a satisfactory year of participation.
Yeah, there's just so many ripple effects that Yeah, I read a number of different articles yesterday while I was working on the article, and I was just like, blown away that I just happened to see on Twitter that someone shared that the National Guard's running out of money, and I was like, Oh, that's interesting. And so I pitched my editor and was like, and then I was like, digging through everything. And I was like, so when this episode goes live, it will be past August 1, because every article I read said that like July, which is now or August 1, but Congress is currently working on, there's like three or four different bills that are trying to get through, one of the battalions is getting ready to deploy. And they have training in August, and then they're supposed to deploy in October. And they'll still have to deploy in October, but they won't be able to look at Katrina. Yeah, yeah. And so and that was in Indiana. And so it was just really interesting to read that article and think about like, that's one story. And like, how many more stories are there with you? I don't think people realize how much the National Guard is doing both here in the States, but also overseas. Yeah. So actually, the National Guard deploys more often than any service out there. Yeah. I mean, I deployed with the National Guard when I deployed, and I know there's, yeah, there's so many missions that they're involved in. And so I'll be watching that, because I'm curious to see what's gonna happen. Yeah, sure. It affects your life a lot more than mine. So you mentioned that you're pregnant and your husband's in the military to Right?
He is also in the National Guard. And he's full time capacity as well. He is still a federal technician. So he's a striker mechanic. And during Monday through Friday, he actually worked at the same FMS, the field maintenance shop that I did, which was very interesting as it was kind of cool working together with him, but separate because I was in the offices and he was out on the shop floor. It was very cool. He loves his job, he calls it playing with like adult Legos every day, he just gets to tear things apart and fix them and put him back together. So he's very happy there. And then on what we call the MD side, drilling side. He's a fueler. So he works. He's assigned to the the forward support company for the infantry battalion here. And he runs all the fuel missions for all the vehicles.
It's just so fascinating, all the different things that you can do, and an Army National Guard and the Air National Guard to but like, there's so many different mission sets and like different opportunities where like, he has the Monday through Friday job, or he's doing one thing, and then his drill job is different. And there's just, it's just so fascinating to learn more
There are a crazy amount of opportunities in the National Guard, whether you want to just stay part time, or if you want to be you know, brought on full time. The possibilities are endless.
Yeah. So are you worried about like drill weekends when you have your baby? Or does your family live close? Or do you have a plan for
a very interesting question. So I also have an eight year old daughter is from a previous marriage. And so most of the time, it works out that she's with her dad during girl weekends. So it's okay. But there are the occasional times where I need to find childcare. And it seems like the women are always in charge of trying to find childcare, like the men don't even worry about it, that's part of their brain space to you know, think about where the kids can go while they're a drill. So it hasn't been too difficult, um, our families that are somewhat local. So that's been helpful. And we have lots of friends who help us out in the in the National Guard, every almost all the families are very tight knit, so I guess we're busy, but maybe, you know, friends from the National Guard who have kids, if they're can watch like more than one kid, maybe they'll my daughter will go with their family for the weekend. So we're all very tight knit and help each other out.
That's really good to hear. Yeah, yeah, there's so many different like dynamics and things that make it challenging to be a mom and the military and my husband's active duty. But he's the same way because like, now I have my career with my blog and my podcast, and I'm getting an opportunity to, to go places and like I, even though it's my trip, I have to figure out how care and have like, I'm okay. But he's not very connected. So it would be hard for him to help. So it's like, on one hand, it's like, I have all the connections, so it's easier for me to plan it. But on the other hand, sometimes, like,
I have experienced that struggle quite a bit in recruiting, because not very many female recruiters and on the team, you know, my team leader and everybody are they expect me to perform and go to advance and as a recruiter, like your work hours are just, you're at the whim of whenever anybody is available to meet with you. And so I bring up the point of like, okay, so I go to appointments in the evenings, who's going to make dinner for my family? Who's going to take care of my children? Who's going to do the laundry, who's going to clean the house, you know, while I'm while at work? The men don't even think about that, because they have the wives at home to do all that for them. Like, I am the wife who does this thing like that, you know, and so I have to like bring, reel them back in and bring them back to reality of these are responsibilities that I also have on top of, you know, doing doing the job?
Yeah, it's a hard dynamic. Is there anything that you've learned to help you with, like the balance? Or is it just speaking up and advocating for yourself,
I've learned to speak up and advocate, the squeaky wheel gets the oil, so I learned to not be quiet anymore. You have to stand up for yourself, and you have to be assertive to get things done. I'm not afraid to make phone calls and to find the right person for the job and to find the right person to answer the questions that I have. I think that's the part of the reputation that I built, which kind of gives me a different perspective of the being a woman in the military. For a while while I met my husband when we are in a transportation company, and a Support Battalion, and then we both moved to the forward support company in infantry battalion. So if injuries, all males up until very recently, there's very few females still in the infantry. So I've always had to assert myself and make sure that I'm respected in that Battalion, and, and taken seriously. So I've built this reputation, that I'm reliable, and I'm not afraid to get things done. I'm not afraid to stand up for myself wherever I'm at. And I think that's helped me a lot. And it's made me very successful throughout leadership. In my career, I guess, I've learned that, you know, I had, I've set up for myself enough that now I have a reputation that I can do the job and be responsible, and a lot of leaders and other unit members look up to me for for answers. That's really great.
And it's all about advocating for yourself and speaking up, right,
and also taking on the hard job. So I went to a class called VCE. It's a vehicle crew evaluator. So in the infantry, especially in the Stryker infantry, you have to be qualified every year, in order to fire weapons off of your Stryker using the remote weapon system that AWS there's a range that you have to go to every year and qualify just like your individual weapon, but you have to use the striker the vehicle as your weapon. So there's like the remote little joystick candle and like know how to use the the DV and all these things and know how to be tactical about it as well. So I went to this course to become the evaluator for these crews. And I learned a lot about tactics and a lot about the infantry going through that course. And I think there was a little bit of a nervousness in the battalion, I became the battalions, like curry evaluator, so I would evaluate everybody in the talion, to make sure they're qualified for to be you know, a gunner. And they were a little bit nervous, because I was a female, and they weren't sure how the other male infantry guys were going to receive my criticism, especially if I failed them, if they, you know, didn't qualify. And what I found was, I was very intelligent. And I spoke intelligently to these guys. And I was very helpful in teaching them the correct tactics before they went out to qualify, and I was able to guide and lead them to be successful. And then they respected me, like a whole bunch more. They came to me with with questions, instead of going to our team leaders, which kind of sparked a little bit of animosity, but everybody, you know, started to respect me as actually intelligent and tactical, you know, have a technical knowledge base.
Yeah. Because you're you have the expertise and you didn't just keep it to yourself, you've shared it with them and you try to set them up for success and so they trusted you because you had already taken that first step.
Yeah. And I really liked that they like set aside most guys set aside the fact that I was a woman, you know, and I wasn't In the infantry, and I wasn't, you know, a grunt out on the out in the field or anything, even though I wasn't those things that they shared amongst themselves, they respected the fact that I would, I was able to teach them and guide them. And they didn't care if I was a girl or a guy or whatever, they listened to me and they sought out my advice.
Yeah, when I deployed, I deployed with infantry unit, and I had a similar experience where they were like your, they'll call me the precious cargo. But they saw me as the because I was civil engineer and the expertise in that field. And they knew that my job was to go and inspect the buildings, and their job was to keep me safe, and you know, do all the technical stuff, which is exactly what it was. And it didn't matter that I was a female. I mean, that's why I was precious cargo because I was a female. But, I mean, that was like their, like nickname for me to make, or I guess, like my callsign that they gave me. But I always felt respected and like part of the team and they did their job. And I did mine and we worked really well together.
That's one of the things I really loved about the military is that we all work as a team. And I don't find very, very few instances of any tort type of sexism or racism or anything. I think, in my experience, everybody just accepts everybody as they are and uses everyone's strengths and acknowledges weaknesses. And we work great as a team together.
Military is really good at looking past those things. probably still have some issues here and there. But it's good that in your experience, you've had such a positive experience. Right. So is there anything else from your time and that you wanted to talk about before we wrap it up? I think we touched on pretty much everything. Yeah, I feel like we covered pretty much everything. I like that you talked about all the different schools that you've done, the different ways that you've served and kind of shows like all the different opportunities and the flexibility in the way that you could serve in the guard. And you barely touched on having a civilian job, which is what most people typically think of. So it's really interesting. But I have one last question, which is what advice would you give to young women who are considering military service
and want to keep the recrutier in me out of this. So of course, I'm going to suggest any male, any female act, do your research, look into every branch, figure out what you want to do. And don't be afraid to take the leap. Don't be afraid to challenge yourself. It's one contract in the military is not very much time, six years is only about 7% of your life. So it's not much. And it's a fantastic experience to have to grow your confidence to grow your knowledge base to grow your leadership skills, is you can't go wrong in the military, I believe. And I think if you're able to absolutely take that jump, take the leap challenge yourself and and really give it your all.
Yeah, and I love the quote by Joseph Campbell, which is when you come to a great chasm in life jump it isn't that far. But yeah, that's a really, I think that joining the military can feel scary. And I've had a few women reach out and they're like, I'm nervous. So I mean, I shouldn't do it. And I'm like, no, that means that you should do. Being afraid isn't a bad thing. It's, I mean, it's a challenge, it's gonna be hard. That doesn't mean that you shouldn't do it, or that you can't do it. So just jump in, you'll be amazed at what you can do. Right. There's lots of people that will catch you at the other end. Yeah, that's great. I love that. Thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate having you on the show. And I'm excited for this to go live. Thank you so much, man. That was great talking to you. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of women of the military podcast. Do you love all things women in the military podcast become a subscriber so you never miss an episode and consider leaving a review. It really helps people find the podcast and helps the podcast to grow. Are you still listening? You can be a part of the mission of telling the stories of military women by joining me on firstname.lastname@example.org slash women of the military or you can order my book women of the military on Amazon. Every dollar helps to continue the work I am doing. Are you a business owner? Do you want to get your product or service in front of the women of the military podcast audience get in touch with a woman of the military podcast team to learn more all the links on how you can support women military podcasts are located in the show notes. Thanks again for listening and for your support.