This week in honor of June 12, 1948, when women were formally allowed to serve in the military I wanted to change up the focus on the podcast and share the work that Destinee Prete, Ph.D. has done through her research. Her dissertation: The Post 9/11 Female Veteran Workforce Experience: A Multiple Case Study was recently published and I wanted to spend an hour talking to Destinee about what she learned and what her findings were.
In all aspects of my personal, academic, and professional life, Destinee has an undeniable, strong motivation, and passion to help Service Members, Veterans, and their family members succeed. She grew up as a military ‘brat,’ she is an Army Veteran, and a military spouse. She worked for the Soldier For Life – Transition Assistance Program (SFL-TAP) as a career counselor and as Site Lead/Manager for the VA-TAP Benefits Advisors on Fort Belvoir and Quantico. She also worked with our wounded warriors as a transition coordinator.
She has such a drive that she even continued my professional development and became a Certified Veteran Developmental Coach (CVDC), specializing in transition and development as well as career and life mapping. Through her doctoral degree, she has dedicated all her studies to further understanding Veteran transition and her dissertation topic is: The Post 9/11 Female Veteran Workforce Experience: A Multiple Case Study.
She is the President and Co/Founder of We2AreVets 501C3 and is the volunteer Director of Women Veterans Programs and Resources for VETS2INDUSTRY. In her ‘free’ time, she is a very active mentor and coach.
From 2008-2012, she was a Medical Service Officer/Healthcare Administrative Officer in the Army. She spent 4 years active duty in the 44th Medical Brigade in several different units (Area Support Medical Company, Combat Support Hospital, Dental Unit, Brigade Staff).
Her friends and previous co-workers call me “Wonder Woman”. She is a mother to three sweet, energetic, smart little men - twins, ages 8 & 7. They also keep her motivated to be the best role model she can be.
In this episode we talked about Destinee’s recently published dissertation: Post 9-11 Female Veteran Workforce Transition Experience. We talked about how the dissertation topic came to be, the research process, how she found women to talk to, the four themes that came out of her research, and what she is doing today.
When she began her research, she found that there hadn’t been any research done on women veterans in the post 9-11 era. She knew that her experience didn’t fit the traditional transition and felt so alone. She had left the Army to be a military spouse and stay at home mom. Beginning her Ph.D. was something she decided to do for her. And she wanted to focus on women veterans and their transition process. She wanted to know if her experience was an anomaly.
She put a call for women needing between eight to fifteen to participate. Within a day she had 72 women signed up to share their experience. This excited and encouraged her to continue her research. Women wanted to share their stories. She followed up with the first 15 women who signed up. It was a wide range of ranks and included four of the five branches.
From her research, she took away four primary themes.
Non-Traditional Route
Identity Shift
Recognition
Traditional Program and the need for reformation
We discuss the overall themes and a brief overview of what she learned.
We ended the interview with advice for women veterans and women planning to join the military. For women veterans, get involved in the veteran community. Connect with other woman veterans and you will find a unique connection and build lasting friendships. Both Destinee and I ran away from the veteran community post-transition and coming back to the veteran community has been so welcoming and healing.
For women looking to join she offered the advice of not losing yourself. The military molds and changes you, but that doesn’t mean you need to lose who you are and what you want. You should also connect with a mentor. If you don’t know anyone or need help finding a mentor both Destinee and I are happy to help. You can also check out my free Girls Guide to the Military that will help answer your questions toward military life.
Connect with Destinee:
Mentioned in this Episode:
The Post 9/11 Female Veteran Workforce Experience: A Multiple Case Study
Related Episodes:
Military Women and their History - Episode 70
Do You Know the History of the original Woman Pilots? - Episode 49
Advice from the 23rd Secretary of the Air Force - Episode 40
Amanda Huffman
Welcome to Episode 78 of the women of the military podcast. This week I'm doing an interview with Destinee Prete talking about her dissertation on post 911 female veterans workforce transition experience. I wanted to do this interview this week because on June 12, in some states across the country, it's women's Veterans Day and women's Veterans Day is on June 12, to celebrate the day in 1948, when women were formally allowed to serve in the military outside of war, and so I thought it would be interesting to do an interview focused on women veteran issues and talk about what destiny learned from her research paper and how the stories even though the people that she interviewed had different experiences and different transition paths. It was interesting how she came up with four themes that we'll talk about in the interview and what she learned from her research when she started putting it all to Other so this episode is a little different than normal. I'm going to have destiny on in the future to tell her military story, but this week we're going to focus on her research. And if you're looking for someone inspirational to follow on LinkedIn, make sure you check her out. So let's get started. You're listening to the Women of the Military Podcast where we share the stories of female servicemembers and how the military touch their lives. I'm your host, military veteran military spouse and mom, Amanda Huffman. My goal is to find the heart of the story and uncover issues women face while serving in the military. If you want to be encouraged by the stories of military women, and be inspired to change the world. Keep tuned for this latest episode of women of the military. Welcome to the show, Destinee, I'm excited to talk to you.
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
Hi, how are you?
Amanda Huffman
I'm good. Life's a little crazy, but
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
I think we all feel the same So no worries. I appreciate you having me.
Amanda Huffman
Yeah, so this interview is gonna be a little different than my normal podcast interviews because we're going to be talking about the research that you did for your dissertation. But I still want to start with why did you decide to join the military? Just because I thought that'd be a fun question to start with.
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
Right. Well, hi, everyone. I'm Destinee Prete. That's a good question because you know, sometimes I blocked that part of my life out to be quite frank with you. Because there's so much going on, I decided to join the military because I grew up in a military family I grew up with my dad who was in my mom have served too. Actually what really drew me to deciding was that my dad was on a mission to Jordan on September 10 2001, which is one day before September 11th. And he was on a mission and he got stuck in Amsterdam on the way over because September 11th happened and when he got stuck, he was in a special unit. And he basically, you know, we were cut off from all communications with him for several weeks because basically what happened was he ended up being one of the first to deploy over there. And he was a logistician. Through that experience, I became very, I would say patriotic is probably a word that I could use, but I was very tied in wanting to serve. And so I literally, from that moment forward, I knew that I wanted to give back I knew that I wanted to be part of whatever it was that he was doing. I didn't know at the time when he was doing but I knew that I wanted to be part. So I decided in those moments that I was actually going to join the military, even though I was never really athletic or anything. I grew up in a family that was you know, involved and I, you know, wanted to kind of continue on that. Know, that generational thing where I serve back to so that was the main reason but I also joined because hey, you know, I got a free ride to a college. So I got an ROTC scholarship to University of Tampa. And so I said, Hey, the military, you know, I want to serve and they're also going to pay for my school. Yes. And I'm going to be able to get out of here and become an officer. Absolutely! Sign me up. So that's exactly what I did. But that's really the reason. The reason is because I was super driven to follow in my dad's footsteps, and he's been kind of my hero in my idol and all of these my inspiration for many of the choices I've made in the military and outside of the military,
Amanda Huffman
That sounds really cool that you're following your dad's legacy. And then the ROTC scholarship is a great program a way to go to school and then join the military. So that's awesome. So we'll save the like, your military experience for another interview. But let's talk about why you decided to focus on post 9/11 veterans and why you decided to write a dissertation on Post 9/11 Female Veterans Workforce Transition Experience.
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
So I guess we can kind of start where we're maybe like what led me to wanting to even get my doctorate in the first place, because most people are like, why did you go from military to getting your PhD? Well, I got out of the military because I had a lot of children at one time I had twins. And then I had one right after and my husband was active duty. So I chose to get out. And it was a family decision. And I knew that I could stay in but I also, you know, my mom was a stay at home mom. And so I grew up watching her and watching what she did. And I really believe strongly that I should be a mom at home for a few years as well. So that's what I did. I got out and I chose to pursue my PhD. And the reason I did that was because I wanted to have one thing for myself that I could own. Like, I knew that I was going to give everything I could to my children at that point, being a mom, but I also knew that I needed something Cuz I went from career woman to like nothing in a way, right? I went from doing something every day going to work till you know, staying at home full time with three babies three and diapers, you know, formula. And so I decided to get my PhD most people are like, What is wrong with you? Why would you do that when you've got three babies? Well, it was the one thing that I could own and I could do about I knew that it would project me and move me forward and let me Excel after all of you know, the stay at home mom stuff was over, basically. So that's why I really started my PhD. Now what led me to focus on the post 911 vets in their transition? Well, a lot of things. I mean, there's some it's hard to even start I when I got out of the military, I felt a little bit lost. And that word now means a lot of things to me, but at the time, I felt completely lost. That's why I started my PhD and I also got out in 2012 Which is whenever they initially started the transition assistance programs. And so, at the time, when I got out, I basically signed off on a paper stating that I didn't really care to do any transition classes, because I didn't feel I needed it. You know, and so and i think that that is a true probably feeling for many, you know, even goes down to adult learning theory, like most people don't think that they need something unless they perceive they need it. And so at the time perception was I don't need this I'm gonna go be a stay at home mom. So I didn't do any of those classes. I didn't learn how to write a resume. I didn't learn how to do any of that. And so I just went to full time mommy and student. Within those four years, I struggled in my classes, I struggle to relate because in my classes, I was a PhD student talking to CEOs. And you know, they were all really you know, much older than I am much more experienced and I in my classes, talking about all kinds of stuff and the only thing that I could relate to them or relate to the class was things that happened to me in the military. And what I started to realize and put together was that the military was structured a lot like an organization, and that we can learn a lot from the military. We can learn a lot in businesses from the military, you know, when it comes to training and development and retention and things like that. So I kind of started putting those things together. And then as time went on, I got my first few jobs, which were both directly working with our veterans. So the first one was I was a career counselor for SFL top the Army's Soldier for Life program. And that's where I really all clicked for me, I realized that there was such a need to talk about transition overall, like for all veterans, but women specifically would come to me when I was a counselor, and they would not really be, quote, unquote, ready for their transition, they wouldn't really be as prepared because most of them were actually going home to be moms and they didn't really care about That stuff. They said, Well, you know, talk to me later talk to me a few years down the road when I'm ready. And so it was kind of this like interesting trend that I noticed that our transition programs want to push education, they want to push jobs, but that many of these women were not falling into those categories. And so as time went on, I started to do all of my PhD research on veterans. And what I found was that there was literally no research on our women. And when it comes to our post 911, our most current demographic of women veterans, there was nothing. There was not even a basis in which to talk about. And so that really proved to me two things that proved to me one, that I wasn't alone. And that I, you know, I knew that things needed to change. And two that we needed to do more research that somebody out there needed to give all of our women a voice. And so that's kind of what I aim to do.
Amanda Huffman
Yeah, that's really awesome. And speaking about like TAP, like, I guess I know why the research paper resonated with me so much because I was pregnant doing TAP and I was like,
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
me too.
Amanda Huffman
Why am I here? I just want to be a stay at home mom and like,
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
Yeah, me too.
Amanda Huffman
Yeah. And then years later, I was like, man, I really wish I could take TAP again. Now that I'm like, in that transition phase back after like being a stay at home mom and like, I would have, I would have done this, I would have done that. But I wasn't like, I was getting ready to have a baby. I wasn't getting ready to go the military and so I'm like to have that forced on me. At the same time. I was just like, checking the box. And so it makes a lot of sense.
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
Yes, exactly what I did to I was pregnant with my third during my transition process. And same thing like I that's what I checked, I literally signed a paper so I don't need this because I didn't at the time, it didn't matter to me. I was like, I'm just waiting. About the next phase of my life. And whenever I need that stuff, maybe I'll get back to it. But I just I blew it off and I put it to the side. I completely understand what you went through, I went through the same thing. And interestingly enough, there was a woman in my dissertation interviews that same thing. She was pregnant on our way out, and she was not really concerned about her transition. And now here she is four years later, and she's contacted me because she is interested in her transition now. So I think that is a definitely a common thread amongst especially if you're doing military, because I was in the middle. You know, my husband was in the military, and I believe yours was or was too Right. or his Yeah, he still is. Yeah. And so in the same thing with this other lady that I interviewed, she was also do a military. And so I think that's a whole nother topic, that there's so many women that are getting out because they are dual military, and then they kind of start falling into that interesting Battle of Am I a veteran, or am I a spouse or what am i So, you know, there's so much out there to really talk about and really address. But that is really the core of why I want to do what I'm doing and start talking about this stuff and researching it and putting it out there for the world to to read and to talk about, you know, start saying start the dialogue, start the dialogue. And that's really like my mission with all of the research.
Amanda Huffman
Yeah. And so how did you seek out women to be part of your research and like, it's only us. So like, you're kind of constrained by like, how much work you could do and how many people you could talk to and how much time they had. So how did you go about doing your research and figuring out like, if you had enough research to do the dissertation and all that stuff,
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
So for my school, I went through Capella University and they set up the dissertation process. I thought it was a very good way it basically helps you reach your goal of the dissertation because a lot of PhD programs, you're kind of left flapping in the wind by yourself a lot. In the process, but I was able to, you know, I chose to do a qualitative study. So basically, I didn't want to do numbers, you know, if there's no research to that has been done or conducted, you can't just simply start surveying people because you don't have enough numbers. You don't even have a basis of a foundation. So you have to start with talking to people. That's where the research starts. And so I did a qualitative study. I did a multiple case study. And basically, when it comes to the statistics, they show that eight and 14 participants is when you should hit what they call data saturation. Well, so I was literally aiming for maybe eight to 10 women. So I followed through with the procedures in which I, you know, told the IRB that I would do and so I put out an ad on Facebook, and literally within the first day, I had 72 responses from women in my inbox. It was really overwhelming in a lot of ways. It was overwhelming because there were 72 women. But it was overwhelming because it felt really good that yes, women are ready to speak. And so what I did was I basically went through the first 15 women that responded to me because I thought that was the fairest approach. And I reached out to them and asked them if they would be willing to participate. And what was great about that was that it just so happened that there was women from four different services. So there were marine Army, Air Force, and Navy. And then there was also a range from e4 or, you know, specialist or corporal all the way to oh six, which is Colonel. They ranged in ages, they ranged in demographics, they ranged in services, they ranged in their ranks, and so part of me was a little nervous that I wonder if their experiences will be similar and that I will be able to find any data Or will they just be like spread all over the place? And I can't, you know, put anything together. So that's really how I went about it. Because that's, you know, part of the dissertation process is you have to literally put a formula into your dissertation research plan, and tell them, you know, tell the IRB, how you did your study so that it can be replicated. That's the important factor. That's basically what determines if it's scientific, you know, if it's evidence based is if can your study be replicated? So that's what I did. But yeah, that's how I conducted the research. And whenever they reached out to me, they went through a basically a little screening call. And then we scheduled a time to conduct the interviews, and then we moved forward with the interviews and the interviews. were more than I expected. I only had 11 questions. So I thought maybe the interviews would be pretty short. They were all between an hour an hour and a half, and I had to cut people a little bit short at times, because there was so much information they were giving me. These women wanted to be heard every single interview after I got off the phone with them, or those, you know, zoom, however method I talked to them, I felt some type of way. Their words resonated with me. I was emotional, because I experienced very similar things. And to know that all of us women were experiencing similar things, but we never really talked about it was bothersome and amazing at the same time, because it gave me an opportunity to put that in my research, like what a great opportunity. You know what I mean? So
Amanda Huffman
Yeah, and that's so interesting, because I think I have six or seven questions or like my standard interviewed questions for the podcast. And then they all like take a life of their own and it's so interesting to hear their stories and the resonating factor. I didn't know Really think about, like how much of everyone's story resonates with me. Like even if they're an E one, and they only served a year and they got separated, it doesn't matter. It's still like this thing that resonates together. And it's really cool that you were able in that first 15 to get all the ranks and all the branches. That's, that's really cool. And I'm not surprised you got 72 women because I have a recording for November right now and it's March or not March. It's April. I know a month it is. And I have to limit like how many interviews I do because I can only do one podcast a week, but it's not because I'm looking for guests. It's because I can only do so much but women want to be heard and like that's why I think the podcast is doing so well because people want to hear and then there. They get to hear these stories and they're so blown away. And when you posted the dissertation on LinkedIn, it thing happened where it kind of like when it didn't kind of it went viral, right?
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
It did twice. Yes, it went viral. And I was so okay. There's something to be said about spending years into research and then writing a paper, okay? The only person that had eyes on that paper for you know, the year that I was writing, it was myself. And then my mentor and then my board. And so every time I would like release the paper, this there was this sense of euphoria, but also a sense of like complete nervousness that maybe I just wasn't justifying the words of these women. And so I had these like, really crazy emotions. And so when I was able to finally put it out there and then publish it, and it published very quickly, like my entire process was super fast once I started, it was so fast that I wasn't ready for it. To be honest, I wasn't ready for it to be published that quickly wasn't ready. To talk about it that quickly, but it happened within like six weeks, it'll happen. It was crazy fast. From the time I finished, you know, writing to the time like it went, published, it was crazy. And then when I put it out there, it I posted, I put, like I put the dissertation out there and like literally overnight it, you know, hundreds, couple hundred thousand views people were talking about it people were messaging me I had so many people reach out to me from so many different, you know, think like entities and people and professionals and women and hey, like, I want to talk about this because it resonates with not just women veterans, but all veterans in it. You know, it gives you a foundation to start because you know, the only way that you can make actual changes, unfortunately, is through research is through evidence people want to know like, if they're going to push any funding towards anything, it needs to be, you know, evidence based, it needs to be researched, and so from This was like, opening that big can of worms, you know, opening Pandora's box in a way, like, I'm gonna, like, let the research go out there and see what happens. And both times that I put it out there it, it went a little bit further. In fact, now I am so busy with phone calls and like trying to like answer messages and talk to people that I had to like, just stop responding to people on those, you know, threads, because otherwise I'm just gonna keep being too busy. And I can't help and talk about it all. And so yes, they went viral. So that's great news, because that's like, hey, not only are women talking, but people want to know what we have to say. And so what greater thing is that? There's nothing better than that.
Amanda Huffman
Yeah. And you mentioned that it resonated with men also. And I find that with the podcast, I was really surprised that men would reach out to me and tell me how much they enjoyed it because I was like, but it's women talking but I think women are able to look at military experience from a different perspective. And like, put words to things that like guys are feeling but they don't understand. And so it doesn't really surprise me that men would reach out to you and be like, yes, this is what I'm feeling because I think we're able to articulate our feelings in such a way that then when they read it, they're like, yes, this is it. So that's really cool.
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
Right? I agree. And I think that was the whole point. Like, when you're doing a dissertation on a experience, it's experiences are emotional. And so absolutely, you know, we you have to talk about emotions, you have to articulate the way that you felt, you know, you have to think about the way that you felt when you were in it afterwards before it like all of these emotions come out. And so that's exactly why it was so like, I didn't write anything in my dissertation for six and a half months. Like I just read the words over and over because how do you take for example, one of the women was a colonel 30 years in Okay, how do you Take her hour and a half discussion of her 30 year military career and her transition experience that she gave, like the entire interview was full of amazing things was a full of just so many things that should be shared. How do you take that and condense it into like a paragraph, and not only a paragraph, but a paragraph that has, you know, meaning to other women that can basically translate into a theme, which is exactly what I did in my research I did, I identified four themes. But it was so difficult because it was like, there's so many amazing things in like, every single word should be shared. I had to look at it from a scientific, you know, viewpoint, and that's difficult to do, especially when, yeah, it resonated. So I had to also keep, you know, I had to not be biased, I had to really look at it from a different perspective. And so it took me about six and a half months to really look at these words and read them and Be able to identify themes and like meaningful units is what we call the meaningful units of words and like experiences. And so that's what I did I, I did that and it was difficult. But I'm really glad and happy with how it turned out. Because I think, like I said, it resonates with almost every veteran. So what what greater outcome could better be? Not much more, in my opinion, so.
Amanda Huffman
So was there anything in your conversations that or the themes that you pulled out that surprised you? Or maybe it could have been something that you felt that you felt like you were the only one or maybe they were something that just surprised you that you didn't expect to hear?
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
I think I was surprised by all of it, because I thought maybe a lot of those experiences were just unique to me. And what I found was that No, none of those experiences were just simply unique to me, that they were shared. Yeah, we experienced that. in a different way, obviously, we experience everything in a different way. But overall, I felt exactly the same way. For example, the first theme that I identified was non traditional transition route. And I talked about this a little earlier with you and me. And you have that similar experience to transition programs are congressionally mandated, you have to choose a path. And guess what, almost every single one of these women did not fall into that traditional path. They were in a non traditional path, they basically got out many of the women almost all of them had told me that they wanted to stay in the military longer, you know, that they wanted to stay into retirement they had planned they were going to stay in there 20 years and all these great things, you know, one on one wanted to be a general, but then they had children. And guess what, that changed our whole perspective. And so in the military, in some cases, isn't so friendly when it comes to family planning, especially when you're on a, you know, deployment rotation. So the non traditional train Route, it was really good to know that I wasn't the only one that was trying to transition several years after I actually transitioned. And it was surprising to see that every single woman almost had the same experience like the one that was a full bird, Colonel. She actually, one of her, you know, quotes was basically that she didn't want to run around because she was in the airborne unit. She didn't want to run around and play and have a pregnant belly, because she'd wanted to fit in and she wanted to, you know, have a good career. And so she literally planned to not have children because she wanted to get further. And so that really hit me hard, because I was like, wow, how many women out there choose not to have children because they want to, you know, they want to excel in their military career that says something about our military that says something. And it says that maybe we should do more work and effort to you know, make having children, part of Like it's an okay thing, it's a natural thing we were put on this earth to reproduce like biological basics. However, you know, many women were planning to not have kids because, you know, they didn't want to miss a career up. So that really was something that kind of sat with me for a while. And, you know, like I said to you earlier to about being dual military, a lot of the women were dual military meaning that their spouse was into and so that was just so interesting to me. And it was a bit unexpected, you know, and there was I had three other themes, and I wasn't surprised by all of those themes. The second one was identity shift. You know, many women experienced empowerment in uniform, they felt strong and physically, like, big and powerful in their uniform. And then when they took the uniform off, many of them experienced a sense of loss, and I think that resonates with so many veterans, not just women. I wasn't super surprised and I have a whole lot of things that I want to say and When it comes to identity in the in the military and identity post transition, I'm going to have a lot of work plan for that. And then the third theme was recognition, many experienced that they weren't recognized for their service while they were in and when they transition. And so there were so many little stories that came out in my dissertation that basically, you know, one woman for example, she has disabled veteran license plate cover on her, you know, car and people will come up to think her husband for her service. And then her husband tells them No, that's not those aren't my disabled veteran license plate covers, that's my wife's, and you should thank her for her service. And so many of the other women share that same experience where people were thinking their husbands, the men for their service when actually it was the women that should be thanked. And so there was this lack of recognition and you know, another lady experience when she they put free veteran haircuts up sign and she went into the You know, shopping said, Hey, I want a haircut. And they're like, they laughed at her because they're like, you're you're not a man. You're not a veteran like no. And she couldn't have her haircut for free because she was a woman. And she was mortified, you know, how would you feel I feel mortified, too. So we need to get better about recognizing our women. And then the last one, and I'll do this very briefly, because I'm sure we could talk about the last one all day, the transition assistance programs and the need for reformation, they need to change. And these women came up with so many great examples of why they need to change but also so many recommendations and how they should change. You know, there is proof, there is evidence that shows that these transition programs are actually geared towards men. They are and so okay, we know this. So why is this okay? Why is this allowed to happen? Why are we only piloting women programs? Why is that even a pilot? Why shouldn't we just establish these things? And so, like I said, we could probably talk all day about that, but those are the four things themes and there was some surprises, but most of them completely resonated. And I think you might have the same experience now that I shared them with you.
Amanda Huffman
Even when my husband will be able to like, well, she served and she deployed to Afghanistan and then people like, look at you kind of funny and they just are like, Oh, okay. And it's like, wait, that's not the right response. And, and so it's just, yeah, all four of those really resonate with me, obviously, they it really hits close to home. And I think that's why I wanted to talk to you about your research because I think more people need to read it. Not that it already went viral. But it doesn't change the fact that more people need to find it, and more people need to read it because it is so important. And I've loved learning about like how you took the steps so that this could be replicated. So more research can be done because there's so many Much more research that needs to be done. And this dissertation just shows like how important it is with how quickly it went viral, and with how many people are reaching out to you, and how many women you got to respond when you first started doing your research. So it's, it's really exciting to hear about the work that you did the themes that you found.
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
Yeah, I'm excited to what I wanted to be is basically like, a foundation of Honestly, I call it a foundation of change. My goal for 2020 like whenever I didn't realize how quickly about my dissertation will like, get done and be you know, completed unpublish. But my I told myself, you know, I don't really like resolutions. I always give myself like, a year like a like a theme for the year because that's better for me like I don't do well with just like very specific goals sometimes, you know, so my theme for the year was changed the script. And I mean that in so many ways, I mean that in a personal way. Like we all have a Internal scripts that we go through every day, and sometimes not every day, but sometimes they'll come back to us. And they're always pretty negative. Like, it's that script that comes back and haunts you type of thing. So my, that's like the individual perspective of change the script. The other perspective of change the script is that I want to change the script when it comes to how we talk about our veterans. And I want veterans to get better about, you know, talking about themselves and having a voice in giving themselves due credit, you know, in that even breaks down to the basics of resumes and, you know, finding jobs like change the script, like you are not just whatever that Transition Assistance Program tells you that you are, you are so much more. And then on the other side of that because my PhD is in IO, psychology, industrial organizational psychology with a focus in psychological coaching. I always come from an organizational perspective too. So I also think we should change the script when it comes to veterans in the workspace. They did A study that basically showed I think, like 3000 plus organizations participated in this study. And it was interesting because what they found was that these organizations brought veterans into their workspace as entry level, because they had so many stereotypes associated with those veterans, like they believed that they were basically only quote, unquote, capable of entry level work, because, you know, they come with a lot of baggage. And they also showed that it didn't matter how many years of experience that these veterans had, they either have 30 years experience, but they were still like, you know, saying that they basically had no entry level experience because they don't understand the translation. So that's an organization those are, that's an organization's problem to like, you need to know and be more educated about what kind of value is brought by a veteran in the workforce. And so when I say change the script I am hoping that is exactly like what happens with research with a dissertation and beyond. Because people want to talk people are ready to change that script. We're all like, please like media change the script of what a veteran is, you know, it's not just your, you know, 50 something year old white male that, you know, is a retiring Colonel. No, there's, there's so many of us, we come in all shapes, sizes, colors, everything. And we come with so many amazing values and so many amazing skills, we need to be given the opportunity to show that and to talk about it and to change the script. So that's what I'm really hoping for.
Amanda Huffman
Yeah, that sounds really good. I just saw that they started some women, veterans something with the VA this morning and I was looking at who was on it and it was all like, Lieutenant Colonel's and above and it really bothered me because I think part of the reason I'm really excited about like your research is because you covered all the ranks and you got, like all the different views and it was really discouraging for me to read that this morning and see that like, everyone was like Lieutenant Colonel to Full bird Colonel range and like, I'm like, their perspective, like, even though all your research told, like the same general themes, it still is kind of frustrating to me that the VA is like, and a lot of organizations I feel like are only focused on people who like made it to 20 years or made it and that's missing so many people's stories and perspectives that I feel like they're only going to be able to get half the answer.
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
Exactly. And then look at our generation not like the youngest generation, they're not staying in like that's not what they do. You know, they are built on this like idea that they want to jump around and like explore a lot of options in their lives. There's nothing wrong with that. And we're not capturing that whenever we just like you said take people who have been in the military so many years and and basically translate it right into a job with like VA Where it's very military, it's basically like they're falling back into like a similar situation. They're not even transitioning really. Like, there. We call that the cushion transition. You know, and there is, that is something else too, I found in my research that I didn't talk about that that I really want to talk about at some point is that all of the women, and I think many of people that we know, and probably even ourselves have tended to fall when we get into that first job or whatever, we stay military connected. We feel more comfortable working in a place where there are veterans, when we could talk to veterans when we you know, and there's nothing wrong with that. And but I think we don't talk about that enough. When we're, you know, talking about transition where there's like this kind of cushion we need to build around us. That is, you know, our support community. And that support community includes other veterans and other people that have gone through similar experiences. You know, that Why many military members want to go straight into a government job? That translates right into basically military time? Because it's cushion. It's easy. And it feels right. And there's nothing wrong with that. But I think that we don't experience what we could fully experience as veterans. If we don't just go kind of like, cast our net out, you know, a little bit further to the left and right, because, you know, we're so used to being in our comfort zone. And I think that's kind of what VA is doing. It's like a comfort zone. Like, we know that these colonels and stuff have experience and knowledge that can educate Yes, absolutely. But just like you said, We need diversity. We need variety. We need, you know, people from all levels to talk about these things, because otherwise, you're changing things for a generation that is completely different than their you know, their generation. So I appreciate you sharing that because I think it's exactly what we need to talk about more.
Amanda Huffman
It's like a weird like, When I was reading it, I was getting so upset. And I was like, I guess, I guess this bothered getting so frustrated, because I was like another Lieutenant Colonel. And I just, I just really think that that's something that's missing. And people will sometimes see that my podcast is created by a military officer. And they'll comment without looking at it and be like, Oh, I bet she only talks to officers because I know that's the way officers are. And it really makes me sad because like, I don't discriminate if you're a woman and a veteran, you just sign up on the website, and then I send out an email on the first people who sign up kinda like you did the first 15 the first people who sign up, they're the ones who get to be on the podcast. And it's just, I haven't figured out a way to do everybody so I have to like set boundaries and make it work but it I want to hear all the stories and I and they're so important and they all have different takeaways and value and So,
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
Absolutely, absolutely. And I appreciate that I think variety and diversity is exactly what we need to talk about, you know, and that's just like I said, all shapes, sizes, you know, everything. Like I said, it's so interesting because we all share very similar processes experiences within the military after the military. And I love that you're doing this podcast and I love that you're capturing the voices of so many women who aren't used to being able to be heard, you know, and that gives so much you know, depth to what you're learning and what you can put out there and what other people can learn from one another just by simply listening and so you know, thank you for doing that. And thank you for being absolutely like, looking at making sure that it's diverse because it's that's exactly what we lack so much of, you know, in the in the higher echelons of you know, VA and you know God and stuff like that. We need younger people. We need more You know, experiences and knowledge is from all walks of life doesn't matter where you came from, or you know what rank you were, we need all of that. So thank you for doing that.
Amanda Huffman
Yeah, it's so true. I love I love it. It's so awesome. So I wanted to end with two questions. The first would be, what advice do you have for women veterans?
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
Wow.
Amanda Huffman
I know, I kind of changed directions a little bit.
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
I think really just kind of what me and you're saying, like, tell your story. You know, it's about changing the script this year. So what I mean by that is, don't be afraid, you know, so many women. Interestingly enough, they did research and show that many veteran women don't even self identify as a veteran. And why? Because all the pressures that come along with the word veteran, but there shouldn't be there needs to be recognition. And I think that's is the problem we're not recognizing we're putting pressure on. And so I want women to feel empowered to tell their story. And I want women veterans to be more collaborative come together. You know, I have experienced so much interesting interactions when I got out and now that I'm more involved in our, you know, nonprofit space and things like that, because I also have a nonprofit that I'm launching called We Too Are Vets, and what the nonprofit does is focuses on the recognition, inclusion, honor, and most importantly, empowerment of our women veterans. And so many women veterans, when they get out and they start these, you know, their ventures, whatever endeavors they're doing, they don't really collaborate. And if they do, they're very, like skeptical of other women. And I think that's a problem that we you know, it's a learned problem. I was the same way at first I was like, oh, man, like, you know, it's Is this woman like trying to be my friend? Or is she just trying to like, you know, maybe take over something I'm working hard on? I don't know. And so I was a little bit like skeptical at first too. But now that I have opened my mind, you know, cast my net, and really just kind of been open to the idea of talking with other women. Wow. Like, I can't tell you how many amazing relationships I've built. Collaboration is amazing. I have been doing I have been working on so many things. And a lot of that is with women. And when I have conversations with women lately, like before, it used to be like almost surface level conversations. Now, when I talk to a woman, it's usually like, we get deep real fast because I'm not I am unafraid. And I help them become unafraid. And so, you know, we needed we need to tell our stories. We need to not be afraid that we had some potentially, you know, bad traumatic experiences in the military. You know, a lot of the women came and talked about, they had negative experiences, including things like military, sexual trauma (MST), some had PTSD from that. And, you know, that is also unfortunately, in some cases, a shared experience. And the only way that we can be stronger is that we have to talk about it, we can't hold it in, we need to, you know, we need to take power over those situations and those triggers, and we need to move forward. And the best way to do that is together, I really believe that, you know, we need to just get more comfortable and then letting our voices out and, you know, recognizing one another and building each other up and empowering, you know, our fellow women and, you know, I think that would just make things so much better and easier in transition and beyond, don't you think?
Amanda Huffman
Yeah, I totally agree. And we we've met in person one time, but it was for like, we went to a meeting and then you had to run but we have a pretty close Relationship even though we've never met and it's like only been via LinkedIn.
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
Exactly!
Amanda Huffman
But you said we've, we've just went past the fluff and dove in. And we support each other. And it's been, it's been really cool to like have that like shared commonality of like another woman veteran, and then you just kind of have this deep connection right away and you make friends. And it's, it's, it's something that I ran away from when I first left the military. And it's only been in the last, like three years when I started podcasting that I was like, Oh, these women are awesome. Why am I not getting connected with them?
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
Same with me. And like I said, I ran away and I used to be kind of like, I wouldn't know what the right word is skeptical. I think I just, especially after getting on the military, and you know, in the military, you have those built in relationships, you have that built in camaraderie, and then you get out and then all of a sudden you realize he, I kind of have to build my support system around me now. Like what does that even mean? mean, and to be honest with you, like I'm a military spouse, and I'm also a veteran. And I didn't really know where I fit in, you know? And so I was like, how do I even talk to women? And I think that was a shared experience in my dissertation too, with, you know, all the women that talks about this, like need to the transition, there should be a phase of decompression, or they called it assimilating back into the civilian side, because we as women don't necessarily know how to, quote unquote, be women. When we get out of the military, and I felt that way. I was like, how do I be like, I don't even know how to talk to women. I am used to talking to men and I'm used to like being hardcore and aggressive and assertive and things like that, because that's just how you're built up. So I agree. I have had now I've opened myself up and just, you know, listened in had conversations and it's been amazing and same thing like, I appreciate knowing you and I appreciate what you're doing and all of the you know, the goals that You're trying to meet are amazing. And I am so proud of you for how far you've come. And I look forward to like, you know, future talking, collaborating. And because this is what we need, this is the only way that we are both and all of us are going to hit what we want to hit our goals is to be like I said, do it together and do be collaborators. That's the only way just like we did the military. We were one team one fight. You get out you're one team one fight. So I don't know why that has to change, but it does. We need it. We need to make more efforts in that.
Amanda Huffman
That's so true. And then I have my one last question is for the women who are listening who are considering joining the military. Do you have any advice that you would love to give them?
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
It kind of falls into the same thing you know, never lose yourself or your voice? The military gives you that kind of sense of empowerment and purpose, but don't let it strip who you are. You are you know your first name you are you and you came into the military. Because you wanted to be part of something else you wanted to serve. And sometimes a military can kind of strip you of your authenticity and yourself. And it's so important, like, think about all of the amazing leaders and the amazing, you know, people that have inspired us, why do they have them? You know, why have they empowered us? Why have they inspired us because they were different. They were truly themselves. And so if you remember that going through your trip, you know, your military experience, your military lifecycle, all the way through the transition, and you just stay true to who you are. Yes, at some points, you will have to mold yourself a little bit to get through the next point, but you still don't have to lose who you are. So I just encourage you know, young women when they're coming in, just to be strong, and to you know, enjoy the experience. And then the second thing is to seek a mentor. Okay, so like, you don't have to do this alone. Like, I one of the things in my dissertation that came out from all of the women was that they wish they had a mentor. They were able to talk to about decisions and their military, you know, careers. I mean, one even said, if a woman would have told her that she didn't need a family care plan at that specific time in her career, that she would have actually stayed in the Navy longer, like she would have her entire career trajectory would have changed because she had a mentor. So I would say, seek a mentor. And if you can do that, in many ways, you can do that by, you know, reaching out to your own personal network with women who have been successful in the military say, Hey, you know, if I have a question about you know, something that's happening to me in the military, can I just pass it by to you and make sure that one it's like, what's supposed to be happening or to maybe like your advice and how to move forward. Or if you don't know anybody in your personal network, there's so many amazing platforms out there in which you can seek a woman veteran or women veteran mentor, and if you can't, then reach out to myself or probably even I'm sure Amanda will help to We will help mentor, we will help guide you and we will give you access to other mentors and women who have been through it because, you know, sometimes it's a very, it feels like a very lonely journey even though you're surrounded by a ton of people and it doesn't have to feel that way. Sometimes we just need that extra voice to give us some certainty and to give us some, you know, assurance and things like that, that we that were okay and that we're going to make it through and that you know, maybe we just need to bounce that decision off of, but it's important to get a woman mentor because she can resonate with you in ways that likely a man would not be able to especially when it comes to things like family planning or you know, things like that. So of course you can have men mentors, but I would say in suggest a woman you know, mentor would really help kind of put the put the icing on the cake for some of those you know, things that you need to get through so that would be my you know, those two things of advice. Don't forget who you are, use your voice and seek a mentor.
Amanda Huffman
I've definitely agree on the mentor while I agree on both points, but the mentor part, I created a guide on my website, a Girl's Guide to the military. And it's my way of like reaching more people by only being one person and putting all my thoughts in one place. But anyone who gets that guide and then once more support, I can either connect you with someone in the right branch, or the right job, or whatever you're looking for. Because I think, like, I always am, like, recruiters are great, but you also need someone who's not a recruiter to help you when you're making your decision because you need someone who's in your corner for you, and not in the military corner, getting you to join. So I definitely I, I can't agree more with the advice that you gave. So
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
We2AreVets, my nonprofit, that's really something that I'm trying to establish in the coming months is building a very strong women mentorship program, and I think that There are so many platforms out there that offer those things. And so that's why I told you I'm a collaborator, I believe in building off of those things not trying to do all because you know, just like you, I'm one person, I can't do it all. But there are, you know, platforms out there that are already designed to help you with mentorship. And I believe I'm building on that and making more options available. Interestingly enough, so many women actually want to be mentors. They just don't know how to start. They're like, how do I even like, I don't even know where to start, you know where to go. I mean, I've talked to so many people these last several weeks, and they are just like, help me I want to I want to be a mentor. I want to help young women and I want to talk about it. And so people are talking they want to help but they don't know how so definitely, you know Linkln with myself, LinkIn with my nonprofit. I'm also very heavily involved with another nonprofit called Vets2Industry. And it's basically Brian Arrington's baby, he started it it's he's built something amazing. It's basically a repository of information. And it's a library that anyone doesn't matter who you are, if you're thinking about joining the military, if you're already in the military, if you're a family member, all any type of military connected, individual can go to this, this resource library and look around. And so one of those places that you can look around is, you know, for a mentor, and then I'm also the director of women, veteran programs and resources for Vets2Industry. And my goal with my nonprofit is to move forward in the next four to six months on really establishing that pillar under vets to industry and We2AreVers, for women veterans. And you know, this can also go into hand with women who are thinking about joining the military, it's like, you're every single service member doesn't matter who you are, you're going to become a veteran, you're going to make that transition. It doesn't matter where you come from, whatever you're going to make it so you will eventually become a veteran. With that being said, you need to start in the you know, you have to really address all of these issues and things in the beginning. of your military lifecycle. And if you can start whenever you're coming in, in the military, and you know what's out there, you know that there are so many available resources out there. Think about how much better your entire experience in the military and beyond will be. Because if something happens, there's a resource. There's something, there's an entity out there that can help you get through that beyond your tight little circle in the military. There are others out there that are willing to help. So I hope that helps other women out there and other people and young women who are thinking of joining.
Amanda Huffman
Yeah, those are great resources. And I'll make sure to link to them in the show notes. And I really want to say thank you for your time. I know how busy you are. And I loved getting to talk to you about your dissertation, and all the stuff that you're doing.
Destinee Prete, Ph.D.
Thank you so much. I really appreciate you having me and I look forward to more chats.
Amanda Huffman
Thank you for listening to this episode of women of the military. Make sure to subscribe so you don't miss any of the amazing stories I have with women who have Served in our military. Did you love the show? Don't forget to leave a review. Finally, if you are a woman who has served or is currently serving in the military, please email me at airman to mom@gmail.com so I can set you up to be on a future episode of women of the military.