You might think that becoming an author just takes writing a book. But as I interviewed these women veteran authors for this week's episode of the podcast I realized that it takes a lot more than having an idea and writing to have a successful book. The one theme that came out of this episode was humility and building a team to help you. This team could be one other person (an editor) or a group of people helping you build a successful book. And then to launch you once again have to rely on your network to help spread the word. Writing a book is a lot of work, but it is worth it. This interview includes six women authors, five who are veterans, and one who wrote the story of her grandmother who was a Women Air Force Service Pilot.
Laura Colbert - Sirens: How to Pee Standing Up
What was it like to deploy to Iraq as the war kicked off? Laura was the first wave of the invasion after the Marines. She talked about the whole experience in her book Sirens: How to Pee Standing Up which is based on the journal she kept while deployed overseas. In today's interview, we talked about writing her book and what she learned along the way. You can listen to episode 87 of the Women of the Military Podcast where we talk about her experience in the military and dive deeper into her book. http://www.airmantomom.com/2020/08/sirens-how-to-pee-standing-up/
Erin Miller - Final Fight, Final Flight
Erin Miller is the granddaughter of WASP WWII pilot Elaine Danforth Harmon. She has a J.D. from the University of Maryland School of Law, a Master’s in international studies from the University of Leeds (UK), and a B.A. in history from the University of California, San Diego. She is a licensed attorney in Maryland, where she lives with her two Shiba Inus. Erin has become an ambassador for the WASP of World War II by sharing her own story of honoring her grandmother who wanted to ensure future generations learn about the history of these trailblazing pilots. You can read more of both Erin and Elaine’s story in her book Final Fight, Final Fight. Listen to the full interview on the Women of the Military Podcast, episode 49.
“The Connector,” Kathy is the owner and Chief Innovator at Vanguard Veteran. She is a consultant, speaker, trainer, and coach. Mission: To equip civilians to become Veteran Champions. This is done by creating mutually-beneficial activities and services with Veterans that improves the quality of life, workforce, and community. It is her life’s calling to lead the Veteran Champion movement. As an Air Force Public Affairs Officer, she designed and led a never-been-done-before statewide outreach office for the Ohio National Guard to educate and engage civilians in support of troops and their families. She is an SHRM recertification provider and completed the SHRM Veterans at Work certification.
Rojan joined the Air Force through a Reserve Officer Training Corps scholarship. A guidance counselor had recognized her love of math and science and recommended she attended a math and science camp at the Air Force Academy. From that she learned about ROTC and received a four-year scholarship, but had to get her degree in Physics. She had a career in Science and Technology while in the military and talked about the challenges she faced to continue her military career and raise her children.
Order here: https://amzn.to/2Mdgtmu
The history of military women is fascinating when you have a chance to discover it. Gen Mari Eder was given a book on the women of the Civil War and she found it fascinating and wanted to learn more and is now working to share more stories of military women. Gen Eder has so much wisdom and I'm so glad she is sharing it in her new book and for the wisdom, she shared in Episode 70 of the Women of the Military Podcast.
Shannon Polson - Grit Factor
As one of the first women to fly the Apache helicopter in the U.S. Army, Polson's career spans almost a decade as an Army officer and attack aviation leader around the globe, as well as leading and managing in the corporate sector at Microsoft. Polson is committed to courageous, compassionate, and committed leadership for lives that matter.
Do you have favorite books by women veteran authors? I would love to hear about them and why you loved them.
Check out the full transcript here.
Thank you to my Patreon Sponsor Col Level and above:
Kevin Barba, Adriana Keefe
Thank you Patreon members for your support. Want early access to episodes, ad-free content, and one on one mentorship advice? Become a Patreon member today! Click here.
Amanda Huffman00:00
Welcome to Episode 115 of the Women on the Military podcast. This week, I'm doing something different. And I interviewed six authors about their books. They are either women veterans, or they wrote about women veterans, and I wanted to highlight the books that they wrote, how they wrote their books, and what their books are about. So it's a little bit different this week, but I thought it would be fun to change it up and try something new. And to make it even more exciting. I actually have all these video interviews on YouTube, and you can check them out. And I'll put a link in the show notes so that you can go and find the woman of the military podcast YouTube channel. Right now I'm putting all the interviews on without video, except for this one, because I just did this one recently. And I asked all the authors if they would be willing to be on camera. And so you can now listen to him know the military podcasts on YouTube. And you can watch this video on the YouTube channel and so I'll link to it. So if you want to watch the video instead of listen to it, you can do that. And I hope you all enjoy this episode. So let's get started. You're listening to Season 3 of the Women on the Military podcast. Here you will find the real stories of female servicemembers. I'm Amanda Huffman, I am an Air Force veteran, military spouse and mom. I created women in the military podcast in 2019. As a place to share the stories of female service members past and present, with the goal of finding the heart of the story, while uncovering the triumphs and challenges women face while serving in the military. If you want to be encouraged by the stories of military women and be inspired to change the world, keep tuned for this latest episode of women on the military. My first guest is Laura Colbert. She served in the Army National Guard and deployed to Iraq in 2003. She was a guest on the woman of the military podcast in Episode 87. And I'll link to it in the description. She had one of the most popular podcast episodes for 2020. And I'm excited to talk to her a little bit more about how she wrote her book and the challenges she faced and advice she has for women today. Welcome to the podcast. Laura, I'm excited to have you on to talk about your book Sirens: How to pee standing up. So can you tell us a little bit about your book?
Laura Colbert02:37
Sure. So here it is. The original title was How to Pee Standing Up, because I had to teach myself how to pee standing up in a war zone because then when you're in an urban fighting environment, you can't just pull on your pants and go like I wouldn't be able to go in the woods. And I can't knock on somebody's door to use their bathroom because they could be the enemy. But when you get an editor or publisher, they obtain rates. And then they have the ability to change the name of book and my editor really liked the name sirens because it exemplifies military police even though we don't have sirens on our vehicle. When you think of police, you can think of sirens. Also, for any woman who served overseas, you know that if you're with a lot of men, it's almost like you have this provocative nature within you, or this power to lower the men towards you. Because you are a very low ratio of there's a very low ratio of female to males in the military. So almost like sirens and especially to the Iraqis who are not used to westernize women. And also, at the end of the book, I talked about post traumatic stress. And so there were it's like there were sirens going off in my head. So it all ties together. And there's multiple facets. But yeah, it's about my experience at war and coming back home and dealing with post traumatic stress.
Amanda Huffman03:50
Yeah, that's interesting. Because when I thought of sirens, I thought of the sirens that go off when incoming. And so when I read the book, that's, that's what I thought of. And it's interesting that there were all those different layers into it.
Laura Colbert04:04
Yeah. And I never really thought of sirens going off because I don't know if they ever did go off. We would just get a over the radio gear up type of call or get get cover. But we wouldn't really hear an incoming siren, you know, bombing rate or anything like that.
Amanda Huffman04:19
Interesting. That's interesting. Oh, so much about how like the war changes based on when you go and experiences?
Laura Colbert04:27
Yeah, we're definitely at the beginning, when before there are many things established.
Amanda Huffman04:32
So why did you decide to write a memoir about your experience in Iraq?
Laura Colbert04:38
I journaled the entire time and this is this is a journal or this is a chronological order of things that occurred, I did take out the boring bits and the monotonous parts and left the exciting things or the things that readers might want to read about. And the whole time I was there as I was journaling. I was thinking, hey, if this war turns into something, I'm going to have historic evidence of what happened. And when I got home, everybody I talked to in my experience kept urging me to write a book since I had two full books, journal books filled with memories. It's not like I was gonna grasp at straws or make stuff up, it was all there. So I slowly took those journals and made them in a digital format. And then finally, 13 years after I got home, I finally found a publisher and editor who helped guide me to the next step to get my book out almost a year and a half after we started hitting the road.
Amanda Huffman05:33
And through that process, did you learn anything about yourself? like going back through those books, especially after dealing with PTSD and reading through them on the other side of the experience? Yeah. Oh, my
Laura Colbert05:46
Gosh, so much. Well, first, I learned that I'm a horrible writer. And I had to eat a lot of humble soup. But my editor helped a lot. And I feel like I grew a lot and how I, how I use my correspondence and how I essentially write. I also, you know, you mentioned opening up those journals again, but because in oh seven, I had all put them all in digital format. I didn't open up my journals a whole lot in the writing process. But there were a few times I wanted to check my facts. And when I opened up my journals, I was just overwhelmed with that feeling of posttraumatic stress. And I couldn't believe how intoxicating that was, when I touched something like that. It had pictures of my family on it that I had put on there, when I was deployed, and like just the smell and the dirt smudges and all those things just brought back floods of emotions and memories. So that was really interesting. And then writing about my post traumatic stress. There were many, many times when I was writing and tears are just fine on my face. I felt okay writing. But though that pressure from those emotions and that sense of fear and alone, alone, loneliness, just push through.
Amanda Huffman06:57
Yeah, that's really interesting and really powerful. What do you hope people learn from reading your memoir?
Laura Colbert07:04
Well, you know, I wrote it before women were officially on or signed on to the front lines, or that my intention was to get it out there to prove that, even though we weren't supposed to be or people didn't assume we're on the front lines, we completely were, I was a military police officer training Iraqi police officers, we also were put on missions with the infantry to help break down, knock down doors and bust into homes. And I played a whole gi Jane scene in this book of me actually trying to find weapons that after they're shooting at us, and I was the woman who would or I was a soldier going through the doors yelling clear and busting the next door down and yell and clear with my pistol out my hands. And so it was just like, here's reality. It's not what a lot of you think. And also, this war in itself was not presented over media as well as certainly World War Two, definitely not as well as Vietnam. And it was almost like it was forgotten while it was going on. I mean, the Afghanistan war is still occurring. And they're still soldiers in Iraq, and we so rarely hear about any of it. Right. So I just thought it'd be really great for everybody to hear multiple other reasons. But those are the main ones.
Amanda Huffman08:14
Yeah, if you want to know more of the reasons, you have to go back and listen to your podcast episode. And I'll link to that if people want to do that do go about publishing your book.
Laura Colbert08:24
Well, I struggled a lot, I keep what I had it in that digital format. And '07, I kept trying to come back to it. But when it was just me, I was getting stuck. And I didn't know where to go. Next. I had a few friends who are English teachers are people who have written books and said, Hey, can you take a look at this, and we get, you know, 10-20 pr 30-40 pages into it. And then life will take back over again. And I give it up. So I was talking to another actually Vietnam veteran who wrote his own book, and he recommended his publisher and editor, which is where your Publishing Group. And so I reached out, and she agreed to be my editor, or publisher. And once that happened, that's when we really started moving forward. So I feel like it was fate or luck, or whatever you want to call it. But it kind of fell into my hands. I had tried to find my own editor and publisher, way back before the internet was big. Like go to the library, looking through this thick stack of puto, who does military memoirs and trying to send out a book or my, you know, cover page or whatever, and it just wasn't successful.
Amanda Huffman09:25
Yeah. And I'm in my own process of working with a publisher. And when you were talking earlier about how like, you're a bad writer, not that you're a bad writer, but you know, like, I met with the publisher, and they're like, this is great, but you also need to start over so that like humble pie, whereas like, they were like, this is great, but you also need to start over. I was like, Wait, how does that make sense? But now like I've been working with them, and they're right, like it was a great idea and a great start, but I did need to start over and I can pull stuff that I've written into it as I'm working through it. But their help has really helped. So what advice would you give to someone who is considering writing their own memoir?
Laura Colbert10:08
Well, I would definitely say do it. Because even if it doesn't go anywhere, you have this precious piece of history. And, you know, pursue, or find people who have written them too, because that helps. Because you can always get talking points, you might find another publisher through them, right, but definitely just get started. Just sit down one day and get started and take little baby steps. make little tiny goals. And before you know it, you'll be there. But certainly, I mean, you've got both of us on this on this video now that you could reach out to and say, Hey, what did you do? Where can you connect me with so and so? And that's just that's a really great first step.
Amanda Huffman10:41
Thank you so much for your time. And where can people go and get your book if they want to order besides that I'll have it linked in the show notes.
Laura Colbert10:49
Yeah, it's on. It's on Amazon and walmart.com. And in a lot of places Barnes and Noble. I am also I finished my audible version, my my audio book, and it was supposed to come out in December. But I think because I COVID and all these weird random delays. It hasn't officially come out yet, but it should be coming out an audible very soon. And it is read by me though you can definitely hear a lot of the emotion as I'm reading it throughout the book. And sometimes I offer little clips and side stories as I go.
Amanda Huffman11:22
That sounds really great. I feel like I've never listened to an audiobook. But now I want to.
Laura Colbert11:26
Well, yeah, it's it. That's what I like to do when I drive. So yeah, it was fun to make. That's awesome.
Amanda Huffman11:34
Thank you again, so much for your time and for for your writing your story to share it with all of us.
Laura Colbert11:40
Well, thanks. Thanks for having me.
Amanda Huffman11:41
My next guest is Erin Miller. She did not serve in the military. But her grandmother was a WASP. And she wrote a book about her grandmother. And it came about because when her grandmother died, she was not given permission to be buried at Arlington. And her family felt it was important to honor her legacy of service and work to get a law change so that she could be an intern at Arlington. The story is fascinating, because she includes stories from her grandmother's history as a wasp, what it was like to grow up knowing that our grandmother was a wasp, but not knowing that much about what that meant. Learning the inner workings of Congress and what it takes to get a law change. And just to hear the experience of how this event affected her family and women who've served in the military, I really enjoy getting to talk to Aaron about how the process of the book came about and what challenges she faced. So let's listen to what she had to say. Welcome to the show. Aaron, I'm excited to have you here.
Erin Miller12:54
Thanks for having me. I'm excited to see you again. Virtually.
Amanda Huffman12:57
Yeah, virtually. So I got to read your book, I guess not last year, but two years ago. And let's talk about what your book is called. And a little bit about a short summary of what the book is.
Erin Miller13:10
So my book is called final flight Final Fight my grandmother, the wasp and Arlington National Cemetery. And here is a true story about my family who fought to get a law passed in Congress so we could bury my grandmother in Arlington National Cemetery. And my grandmother had served during World War Two with the women Air Force service pilots, who were the first women to fly military planes for the United States.
Amanda Huffman13:34
And why did you decide to take your notes and your experience and make it into a book?
Erin Miller13:42
Well, during the process of lobbying Congress and doing media interviews, which is part of the story, a lot of people would say this would make a great book, this story's great, you know, things like that. And I'm like, Yeah, I would, and then I would kind of just keep going about my business. But then, after the law got passed, and things quieted down a little bit, I looked and saw all these notes and thought, yeah, I could probably write a book about all of this. And people people were interested. So you know, I thought why not try to do it. And I sat down and and wrote the book.
Amanda Huffman14:10
Yeah, I'm really glad you did, because it's a good mixture of history, along with, like, the legislative process of how to get a law passed. And like, it's, it's really fascinating. Yeah. So
Erin Miller14:25
When I was thinking about writing the book, before I had really started this draft. I went online and was looking for other books about getting laws passed, but not like from a legislator. Obviously, there are a lot of books by Senators and people like that, that work in Congress, but people like you, the average citizen going to Congress, and like what they experienced, and I didn't really find any. And then I thought, Oh, this is both kind of annoying, because I didn't have any real framework to work from but also good because, you know, it's obviously something that should be out there that, you know, I think people We'll be interested in especially the last. I mean, there's always been in this country kind of this feeling of protesting and activism and whatever. But I think it's gotten much stronger in recent years. And so I think it's important to show people that, you know, there are things concrete things you can do, like, how do you actually make change? You know, you can go out and protest and things, but how do you actually change a large change? You know, the actual structure of what you're protesting about?
Amanda Huffman15:26
Yeah, it's, it's so fascinating. And so did when you wrote it, did you hope that people would understand the legislative process and the history of the lawsuit at the same time? Or what was the purpose?
Erin Miller15:39
Yeah, so the book kind of has three kind of stories involved is my grandmother's story, and my wife with her, and then the legislative process, and then the history of the women, Air Force service pilots kind of all together and how those things interact. And I tried to make it easy enough to understand the process so that people who don't know too much about it or just learned the basics in school can can read through it and understand, like, what actually happens when you know, you need a law passed in Congress, like Who do you talk to? And then what actually happens? How do you what happens when they vote? And then, you know, that whole process and when it becomes a law, where does that go? You know, what happens? And so I was trying to include all of those things.
Amanda Huffman16:23
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I learned so much. I love how you put it together. It's, it's a really good book, I think I'll like juniors and seniors in high school, I had to read it to learn, like the history and like the legislative process, just because I didn't know all that stuff. It was so fascinating.
Erin Miller16:40
Yeah. And I've done talks at schools since this came out. And several schools have my book in their library. And I think it's helpful I agree to teach kids who are learning about government and history and things in school, it can be very abstract to learn about the constitution and all these things that are laid out and like, what does it actually mean for you as a person, if there's something that you don't agree with? Or needs to be fixed, or whatever, like, what actually happens? And how does it affect people personally, you know, because a lot of laws in this country are very, very broad. You know, it's not like so specific as so I think that's why this is also a good story, because it's very particular, it's like, pretty specific issue. So it's easier to follow the process. It's not like a big tax package or something. It's like, we need this to happen. This bill says this, and it will make this happen. So it's pretty easy to follow.
Amanda Huffman17:33
Yeah, that's really true. And how did you go from like writing your story to getting it published.
Erin Miller17:39
So I actually published it myself and started my own company, I sent the manuscript to some agents for poaching companies and things and I'm like, they liked it. But they kept saying things like, oh, there's like a lot of memoirs on that market and things like that, I don't know, whatever. But I was like, whatever, I'll just do it myself. And that way, I can have control over what I'm doing, and printing the books and where I go, and who I talk to, and how much I charge and keeping track of everything. And so it's it's like a it's a business. So I researched how to get all of that done. There was a lot of work, but people can do it. You know, and I already had, I knew I already had a bit of a, like a network, people were asking for it. So it's not like, I wrote a book and nobody knew about me or who I was like, we were in the newspaper, we were in all over the world. So it's like there was already kind of a market for it. So I you know, it's not like I went into it totally blind. So I think that was, you know, a good, that was all part of my thinking.
Amanda Huffman18:38
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Especially like, if you went to an agent, and they were like, No, we don't really need this. And
18:44
yeah, it was good. Nobody was like, This is horrible. don't publish this. Like, they're all like, this is really good. But I'm, you know, I'm not sure where I can sell it or whatever, you know, I'm like, fine, I'll sell it myself.
Amanda Huffman18:55
So what would you give advice if someone was considering writing a memoir or just any book? Like how to get started? Or what piece of advice would you give them?
Erin Miller19:04
So I actually, before I started writing, or as I was doing the first draft, read a lot of books that were memoirs. And like I said, I looked for books about the legislative process. And I didn't find any that were not like a congress person talking about what they had done, or like a history book, I wanted, like a personal experience book. And I didn't find any, but I read quite a few memoirs like 20 memoirs to try to get the style down of how they present their story, you know, and you can kind of see what your own style like what you like and what you don't like and kind of pick in and see how you can fit your story and the parameters that these other people present their story in. And you can say like, Oh, I think this worked, but this doesn't work. Or, you know, in my book, I do a lot of back and forth in time, because I felt like the really the inciting incident of my story is when my grandmother dies, but obviously you have to Go back, you know, 70 years to explain where we got in there and how it, you know how all of that stuff happened to why it was important that after she died, all this stuff happened. So you don't want to start back in like, 1919 when my grandma was born and go on and on, and, you know, because it's like, it doesn't work. So you need to have like the inciting incident happen. And then kind of explain from there, you know, and I've read just years ago, I've read lots of books about telling stories, and how like the Anyway, there's, there's several famous books about like telling stories and how you put stories together. So you have to kind of present the incident, and then kind of you get some background, and then you kind of build to like what your goal is. And then once you get to the goal, kind of like the day new Mall of the story, you know, like the funeral and kind of dealing with things after that. And what does it mean? Like for my grandmother and the legacy of the wost?
Amanda Huffman20:52
So did you write down outline to come up with that? Or did you just write the book,
Erin Miller20:56
I wrote in a not an outline in the sense of like writing pages, but I, I wrote out, I drew a line, an actual line on a piece of paper, and wrote the chronological things that happened, like my grandma was born, and then the wasp, and then, you know, I was born and then you know, then my grandma dies, and then the bill and the different dates during the legislation, and then the funeral. So I could keep track of like, okay, here's the chronological thing, and how do I present these different things in an interesting way. So it's not just going chronologically. So I had, I did start a couple different times trying to figure out how to present this information in the best way. And the book was much longer, and like much, you know, not as good in my opinion, because I just was like, involving everybody and talking about everything. And so my editor was like, Okay, let's cut all of these people that aren't that important out, and all this stuff, that's kind of just your memories, and whatever, that's not really integral to the story. And so it was good to have her because she could see that. And sometimes when you're writing the story, you can't see yourself some of these things. So it's good to have like a third party, to say these are things are important. And then say, like, this person came in, and I was confused about this person, and they didn't really seem to really be that important to the story. So maybe we should just not talk about them. And so it was good to have someone say that.
Amanda Huffman22:15
Yeah, yeah, that sounds like great advice. And really helpful. If someone's looking to get started, I just want to say thank you for your time. And thank you for all the work you've done to share the stories of the wasp, because they're amazing ladies, and we'll need to know about them. And so I just really thankful that you wrote this book, and we got connected and for being on the podcast today.
Erin Miller22:36
Well, I thank you for having me. And I thank you for your support of the book. And you're doing a great thing, trying to share the stories of women in the military. So I appreciate that. And I know my grandma would appreciate it too.
Amanda Huffman22:48
My next guest is Rojan Robotham. She is currently serving in the Air Force. And we actually talked about her experience in the military last year, and her episode will be going live later this month. She and I did a book exchange after we did the interview. And I gave her a copy of my book women of the military, in exchange for her book, working moms how we do it, it was really interesting to read not only about Rodin's experience of being in the military and being a mom, but also to hear the other stories that she collected, let's hear about how this book came to be and some of the challenges she faced while writing it. Hi, Rojan, I'm so excited to talk to you today. Hello. So let's talk about what is the name of your book, I can see it behind you. But what's the name of your book and tell us a little bit about it.
Rojan Robotham23:40
It's called working moms how we do it. And it is a collection of stories about active duty military women and all the services and then some civil servants and civilians who are either married or unmarried. But we all have children, and we're in the workplace. And so we're talking about how we manage our homes and our lives and our sanity.
Amanda Huffman24:01
Why did you want to write a book about working women?
Rojan Robotham24:04
So it started about a year before I wrote the book, I was having coffee at my office place with a young woman who reminded me of myself like 15 years earlier. She had just gotten married, she had married a civilian, she's active duty, her husband was not and she came to me and wanted to know how I was doing it, how I was married and have kids because she didn't think she could do it. And I sat there at lunch and I was like you can do it. We're all doing it. You know, just get up and keep going. And when I left her and I was walking down the hallway back to my office, I just realized I failed her. She wanted detail. She wanted specific she was coming from meat, and I gave her nothing. And so I committed after that to write my story about really what is it that I'm doing? I can share it better with her and then I just expanded the circle and started asking other ones Women who are successful in what they're doing with their homes and work, and asking them to share their story. And it all came together in a compilation. Now in the book.
Amanda Huffman25:10
Yeah, and I really enjoyed reading the book, because there were so many different perspectives, and so many, like commonalities, but also like minor tweaks on how people live their life differently and make it work.
Rojan Robotham25:22
That's so true. You know, we're all women, we all have kids, we kind of all have the same goals for our children, for them to grow up and be successful and not mess them up in the world, you know, and at the same time, we want to be successful at work and how we all do it is a little different. We're all striving for the same goals.
Amanda Huffman25:39
Yeah. So did you learn anything about yourself or about working women while doing the book,
Rojan Robotham25:44
I think it's kind of what we just touched upon there is that we have a lot more in common than we really think. And I also realized that we're not sharing that story. When I started talking to other women about the things they were doing, I was like, Hey, I'm doing that. And hey, I'm doing that too. And we're just not having those conversations. Somehow, we're sharing recipes. You know, we're sharing clothes or styles, but we're not really sharing the specifics on how we're running our lives. And so that's what this book tries to do is open up that conversation for women to have with each other.
Amanda Huffman26:15
That's really good. That's so important. And we we do talk about like, not things that don't matter, I guess recipes do matter. But like, really how we are better moms and like tips of success. And especially I love how you're passing it down to the next generation coming behind you. And it's cool that that was your passion, and who you wrote it for.
Rojan Robotham26:38
You know, and I also discovered that there's a lot of books, if you have a library or Google leadership and women, you'll find tons about how to be successful, how to show up how to operate at work, but no one really talks about when you come home, and you pull up that garage door and you enter into your home. Now what do you do in that part of your life? And that's what this book really tries to address or tries to, you know, open the window open the door for people to see in at least on how a group of us are doing?
Amanda Huffman27:04
Yeah. So how did you go about getting your book published?
Rojan Robotham27:08
So I you know, it's kind of like that perfect storm of things where I was thinking about doing this. And then I was actually approached by a group out of Georgetown University. It's where I did my undergrad. And so I guess I'm on the email list. And they were starting a program for alumni who also wanted to be authors. It's called like the creation of the Creator Institute. Now it's open for anyone. So if you go there, you don't have to be a Georgetown, you know, student or alumni to participate. And I thoroughly enjoyed the program. For me, it was valuable because I needed structure, I needed deadlines, I need someone to kind of commit me to making these goals, because it's too easy for me to put it last on the list or slide it or when it got hard to just stop. But they were there to kind of keep pushing, encouraging me and help me over those hurdles. And I needed that.
Amanda Huffman27:56
Yeah, that sounds like a great program. And I'll make sure to get the link from you. So I can put it down in the show notes so that people can find it. Because that sounds great. And it really ties in good with my next question, which is what advice would you give to someone who is thinking about writing their own book,
Rojan Robotham28:13
it's that it's, for me, I needed help, I needed support. I have a couple of friends who just started sitting down and writing. And that's awesome. If that's you, I don't know maybe that technical brain of mine, I spent too much time in the science field. And to get to the creative writing aspect and kind of a storytelling, I needed help. I needed someone to kind of coach me along the way and to check me into question my writing and all of that. And that's what I got out of that program.
Amanda Huffman28:42
Yeah. And I've done I think this is the fourth interview that I've done about with women, veteran authors, and they have all talked about having a resource or a coach or an editor or someone who pushed them to get the book done. And so I think having help, just like in the book we talked about, like having help building your network. It's, it ties in with writing a book too.
Rojan Robotham29:05
It totally does. It all fits in I mean, the SOAR concept from the book you can apply to you know, writing a book, you need support, you need to be organized, you need to aspire want to get it done. And they need resilience, because sometimes you just hit writer's block.
Amanda Huffman29:19
That's so true. Thank you so much for sharing about your experience writing your book, and I'll make sure to have it in the show notes so that people can go and order it. And thank you so much for being on the show.
Rojan Robotham29:31
Thanks, Amanda for having me on the show. I'm really appreciative.
Amanda Huffman29:34
My next guest is Kathy Gallowitz. She served in the Air Force as a nurse and she wrote her book beyond thank you for your service to help bridge the gap between civilian bridge the divide between civilian and military. There are many civilians who want to help and support military veterans, families and service members but they don't know how to do it. And so her book gives People resources to bridge that gap and helps the civilian community know how to help veterans and that they can help veterans. So let's hear more about how she wrote this book and some of the challenges she faced. Welcome to the show. Kathy, I'm excited to have you here. Let's start with what is the name of your book? And give me a short synopsis?
Kathy Gallowitz30:21
Hey, Amanda, thanks for having me. And all the really good work you're doing in this podcast, really proud of you. Thank you. So my book is called Beyond Thank You for Your Service, the veteran champion handbook for civilians.
Amanda Huffman30:35
And why did you write this book for civilians?
Kathy Gallowitz30:40
Well, the crowning achievement of my 29 year Air Force career was being the Director of Community Outreach for the Ohio National Guard, our team established a never been done before statewide outreach program in response to 911. To educate and engage civilians in support of troops and their families. after retirement, I established my business Vanguard veteran to continue this important work and do what I call equipping civilians to become veteran champions. So it was such a privilege to me when I was in uniform. And since I've been out of uniform, to really see firsthand how much civilians our citizenry really want to support, support those who are serving or have served and their families, but you know, they have sincere interest in wanting to do more for us, but oftentimes feel very unprepared, uncomfortable, and you know, maybe sometimes even really nervous about, you know, what to do, how to do it, and, and when, and so I really wanted to share some practical strategies and make it easy for civilians to champion the needs of veterans, servicemembers and their families so that our service members come all the way home and have a maximum quality of life. And one other point, I contend and fully believe, Amanda, that when civilians get involved, and creating mutually beneficial activities and services that everybody wins.
Amanda Huffman32:20
Yeah, I read your book, because you sent me a copy and reading it as a veteran, I was like, Oh, yeah, civilians, I can really help. There's so many civilians. And like, when we're just veteran veterans, it's like a self licking ice cream cone where we don't like expand. And so it was eye opening to read as a veteran.
Kathy Gallowitz32:42
And you know, it's just kind of the way things are, you know, typically in our, in our, in our world, women advocate for women, African Americans advocate for African Americans, veterans advocate for veterans. But you know what, no matter how much money our country has, and we don't have much, right, the Department of Defense and the VA are never going to be able to do it all to support service members, veterans and their families. And and I believe that our citizenry has an opportunity, if not an obligation to roll their sleeves up and do what they can to leverage their center of influence to leverage their passions and do more. And before we get any further, I want to say, you know, our citizens love the military, and are already doing a ton to support us. But there is yet so much more yet to be done. And I wanted to showcase some of those stories in my book so that people are like, just like you, oh, there is something different, something more that I can do. Because, you know, it's a big gap in our society that no one's really doing this important work to educate our citizenry on a reoccurring ongoing basis.
Amanda Huffman34:04
Yeah. Did you learn anything about yourself in the book writing process?
Kathy Gallowitz34:08
Yes. Frankly, I learned how hard it is to write a book. Because it just takes a lot of discipline to sit down, write, rewrite, you know, and just have the stamina because I'm a, I'm basically an extrovert, I get a lot of energy being with people I love to be out and about. And so sitting my butt in the chair to you know, and having the brain power and the discipline and the motivation to really get her done. That was the hardest part for me.
Amanda Huffman34:38
Yeah. And you talked about the writing and rewriting, and I'm working on a book right now. And I'm like, yeah, that's, you're like, I'm done. Oh, wait, I have to go back.
Kathy Gallowitz34:47
And it's hard to shut out the rest of your life. You know, taking care of your kids, your business, you know, your social life, your husband, it's just hard to put that all on pause and really focus on your message. You know, some of us are natural writers, some of us have to work a little bit harder at it. But you know what? What a feeling to get that behind you once it's done.
Amanda Huffman35:10
So how did you go about getting your book published?
Kathy Gallowitz35:12
Well, honestly, I was lucky in that I had a ghostwriter approached me and offered to support. And frankly, if she hadn't done that, and if I hadn't been committed through a contract to, you know, to help pay her for expertise, it probably would have drug on forever. We got it done in about seven months. It's about 150 pages. And so it just it created that discipline, the external discipline for me to get it done, because it's just so easy to be distracted in life.
Amanda Huffman35:42
Oh, true. That's so true. Yeah. So if you were talking to a woman veteran who is looking to write her own book, on whatever topic, what would you recommend? She does?
Kathy Gallowitz35:53
Okay, the other part of your answer I failed to tend not to mention is, you know, what did I learn about myself? Well, in my book, I don't know, you know, the first four chapters were really about my story, and why I came to understand how important veteran champions are because of my own personal struggles and journey. And so as you know, Amanda storytelling so important, and writing down what you've learned who you are, really helps you heal. And so for another woman veteran who might be willing to write the story, Oh, my gosh, our country needs so badly to hear from our woman, veterans, because we still are trailblazers, no matter what your age stage job, you know, framework, religion, you know, we're all trailblazers, we women are and have so much important to teach other women who might consider joining, but also what we bring post military service to our workforce and to our communities. So what you have to say is important, and it's worth fighting through the discipline and avoiding the distractions to get it written down, so that we can share our knowledge and our experiences to help other people grow and become everything that can be really, yeah, that's
Amanda Huffman37:18
Such great advice. I mean, I heartedly agree, since I have a podcast sharing the stories of military women. I think that the world needs to hear our stories, because there's more a forgotten group, but we've done so much. And people need to know about what we've done.
Kathy Gallowitz37:34
So and and I, you know, I'm a mother of three. And one of my biggest struggles has been, how do I feel good about myself, as the wife, a mother, and a career military officer, all three of those were equally important to me. And I really struggled over the years trying to help trying to figure out how to make that work. And the adaptability. And the leadership and the personal growth that evolves because of it is is pretty profound. But it doesn't come without a lot of self awareness, struggle and concrete commitment to growth. Yeah,
Amanda Huffman38:11
Thank you so much for your time. Can you say your book title one more time so that people know what it is?
Kathy Gallowitz38:16
I'd love to maybe you can even see it. It's called now that that was failure. It's called it's on the screen behind me beyond thank you for your service, the veteran champion handbook for civilians, it's available on Amazon. My website is Vanguard veteran.com. I would love to hear from anybody who'd like to chat more about writing a book. And what I want to say is go for it and get her done. It's important.
Amanda Huffman38:42
Yeah, and I'll have links in the show notes. So if people want to order or go to your website, they can easily and thank you again, so much for your time.
Kathy Gallowitz38:51
Thank you. And if you do read it, please do me the honor of offering a review on Amazon because that helps. Amanda, thanks for everything you're doing. Happy New Year. And I look forward to our next discussion. Take care.
Amanda Huffman39:03
My next guest is Mari Eder. She served in the Army on active duty and in the reserves and retired as a major general, her new book comes out in August, and it's called the girls who stepped out align untold stories of the women who change World War Two. And I'm really excited about this book to really be released and to hear these amazing stories, but I don't want to give away too much. So let's just dive into the interview. Welcome to the show today. Mary, I'm so excited to have you here.
Mari Eder39:32
I'm excited to be here and to talk about this a book about these amazing people.
Amanda Huffman39:36
So let's start with what is the title of your book and what is it about?
Mari Eder39:40
Well, the title of the book is The Girls Who Stepped Out of Line so let me tell you where that came from. in 2019. Alex Borstein won the Emmy for Best Supporting Actress for Mrs. Maziel. And when she accepted the award she said in World War Two my grandmother was in line to be shot into a pit and she turned to the guard and said what happens if I step out of line He said, Well, I won't shoot you that somebody probably will. So she stepped out of line. And for that I am here today and for that my children are here to death. So step out of mine, ladies step out of line. So that's where the title came.
Amanda Huffman40:12
Well, I mean, I have chill running up my spine. So I think you chose a great title.
Mari Eder40:19
So that was September of 2019. I've been thinking about writing some of these stories I kept finding. So sometimes I've been asked in the past couple of years to do speaking engagement and talk about leadership or ethics or women Heroes for either its military Women's History Month, another light kind of event. And I found a couple of these amazing stories through reading actuaries, people I've never heard of who had incredible courage and did amazing phones. So I know that sounds odd to say I started through reading obituaries, but by then I was into finding these stories and collecting them. So my agent said, Well, if you put all that together, that will be an amazing book. So all of these things came together at once my agent saying do this, the stories I've been finding, and then hearing that amazing story from Alex Borstein about your grandmother. And as I read these stories, some of them weren't that well done. But I'd have to feel like I knew these people. This isn't. These aren't old people far, far away in the past. This is yesterday. And in many ways, a lot of them did things that influence others today, and their legacy goes on. They built the path that we follow. So I wanted to talk about how they did that and what they did and what they faced and had to go through in order to do that.
Amanda Huffman41:38
And I'm sure you learned a lot about these women. And did you learn anything about yourself while you went through this process of writing and learning,
Mari Eder41:46
I learned a lot of things from them. I learned that each one of them they control their own image. So here is 98 year old Mary Baraka who's talking about what she did in terms of working with the resistance, and World War Two, and she was in Belgium. And if she wanted to tell you a part of her story, or she wanted to tell you in certain way, that was how she would tell it. So every one of them, I think, pretty well contained, and projected how they told their stories over time. Some of them didn't tell it for years. They were either in units, and if they were in the military, or they done things that were classified, and they couldn't talk about them. So they had years and decades to process how to tell this story. One of the people I actually spoke with is Betty Dennis Roberts. And she was one of the people who worked in the top secret ultra program. What she did was helped build the bomb, a machine that decoded Nazi messages, and then Japanese coded messages as well. Their program was so classified and compartmented. She didn't know for 30 years afterwards what exactly she built. She'd never seen it in total, and seen it work until she went to the NSA National cryptologic Museum in 2017. I think, for our reunion to actually see what she had done. So she said nobody asked her her husband didn't ask her what she did in the war. He knew that she was in the Navy, she was away. her kids never asked her and she said, I never told anybody because I didn't ask
Amanda Huffman43:19
I really resonates with when I did a deployment series in 2017. And I interviewed women and I asked what would people say when they find out you deployed and so many women were like, well, no one knows. So no one asked and I was just like,
Mari Eder43:35
Or they don't know what it means. Certainly one of the one of the women I did a story about is is Katie Nolan. Kate was a nurse. She wanted to be a air medic nurse. But that program was full. And we all know what that's like, well, I want to do this. Well, I'm sorry. It's not available, right. So she became a nurse in a heavy casualty field hospital where they moved every 10 days. And we're right behind the infantry and armor units going forward. She earned five battlestars. She went from Normandy, all the way through the Battle of the Bulge to the end of the war. So reading her experiences, and you could tell some of them were written by people who didn't quite know what some of these things meant. So she was talking about the corpsman in her unit Corp s ma n, medical corpsman, and I'm reading this article about her and it's called a CR e ma n. And you could tell they didn't quite know what corps he was after, or was doing. So having military understanding and background helps you look at a story and go oh my because you understand how deeply impressive it is. So for people who would say well, she wasn't in combat, they were less than a mile behind the frontlines. Her unit was shelled, they were bombed. They watched the Nazi convoys go by, they had to roll patients out of cots and lay on top of them during the shelling. So they did had to do some pretty tough things. They never got to spend much time with these People, they were only with them a few days before they were moved to the rear, and then their unit would pack up and move again. And like everything else, what you learned in school about how to set up these tents doesn't apply in the real world.
Amanda Huffman45:11
Yeah, these are amazing stories. And I'm so glad that you wrote this book. And it's actually not released yet. Right? It's coming out later this year.
Mari Eder45:20
It'll be coming out this summer. Actually, I think it will be released on August the third. But just a few weeks ago, I got to see the galleys for the book. So I've seen how it looks with pictures. And that was that was a great present for the holidays. It really was.
Amanda Huffman45:35
Yeah, that sounds awesome. So how did you go about you mentioned that you had an agent? How did you get connected with an agent? And what is that process been like?
Mari Eder45:45
This process is kind of a long term one, you have to really, it's another world entirely for me coming out of the military to learn how to get into writing in a different way. Although I think I know how to write I quickly found out I needed a little bit of a return to some of the basics in terms of grammar and structure. And all of those things we tried to forget from high school. So I worked on learning the bakery, learning the basics, learning the structure, looking at the business world that is publishing, because it is a very different process. And it has very different timelines, they take very long breaks at the holidays. So if you think you're going to be able to talk to an agent, and perhaps write a pitch letter, it's not going to go that easily or that well, and it will take time, I went to several writers conferences where they have classes, and here's your best first page. Here's how to write your pitch, how to structure your story, how to build character, and there are several websites that teach a lot of these things and how to do it. So I've been to at least a couple of conferences going okay, now, I think I understand it. And they do bring in agents to some of these conferences, the one I went was in New York, and it's for writers of thriller and mystery books, which is what I wanted to do. So you get to go in the room where there are agents, there's 20 or so of them. And they all have egg timers, and you have two minutes to sell yourself and sell your book. So if you don't have that what we call an elevator pitch, they, here's what it's all about. And here's why you're going to love it. And here's why it's different, unique, but not too different not to you like it's not different than they don't want to.
Amanda Huffman47:18
Yeah, it sounds like so one of the things that I have found interesting and talking to all of you authors is that there's a lot of humbleness that goes into it and a lot of learning something that you thought you already knew, like you said, I thought I knew how to write. And then I learned to go back to the basics and all this learning and growing and the process of time. And so I thought that was really interesting that all the authors have that humbleness, and that learning to start over in whatever process they're in.
Mari Eder47:49
And I have certainly met people who are not willing to learn for ready to do that. So they're surprised when the system doesn't seem to work.
Amanda Huffman47:56
Yeah, I've had the same experience. So I understand. So what advice would you give to someone who's listening? Who does want to become an author? What would you say is the first step that they need to take?
Mari Eder48:07
I think it is to write every day you write your thoughts. You write a journal, you write a story, you have an idea, you write all of it down and you keep it sometimes we all have our brains work in different ways. No, I'm the editor in the morning, I can fix things and make them more organized, and the creative person in the afternoon. So I can write something in the afternoon. And the next morning, the other side of the brain will come in and fix it. So I think it's learning your process and what works for you. But it's never stopping working at it, and enjoying it when you do it.
Amanda Huffman48:37
That's such great advice. That's such great advice. I really love it. Thank you so much for being on the podcast and for sharing about your book. And I'll make sure to link to it in the show notes so that people can find it. And just thank you so much.
Mari Eder48:51
Awesome. Thank you.
Amanda Huffman48:52
And my last guest is Shannon Polson, she served in the army and was one of the first women to be an Apache helicopter pilot. And her book, the Grit Factor helps organizations and people overcome resistance and lead with authenticity. I really enjoyed this interview, because we talked about not only Grit Factor, but her first book North of Hope, which was a memoir. And so it was interesting to hear the reflection of an author who's not only wrote a memoir, but wrote the grip factor, which is a leadership type book, and totally different than a memoir style book. So I'm excited to share this interview with you. So let's dive right in. Hi, Shannon. I'm excited to have you here.
Shannon Polson49:36
Thanks. It's great to be with you.
Amanda Huffman49:39
So let's start with what is the name of your book and tell us a little bit about it.
Shannon Polson49:44
Sure, yeah, The Grit Factor and the subtitle is courage, resilience and leadership in the most male dominated organization in the world, came out from Harvard Business Review press in September of 2020. And it really is a not just a compilation but actually synthesis of stories, lessons learned and tactical takeaways from leaders in the Vanguard's of their fields. They happen to be women, and they happen to be military. But it's the net result of a three year project of interviewing lots of women across the services across generations from World War Two to the present, and really taking this benefit of these incredibly generously shared stories, and lessons learned to be able to pass on to others.
Amanda Huffman50:27
That sounds amazing. And Mary Eder was the interview before yours, and hers is like, similar, but different. And it's just so cool the different stories you get to hear of women that so many people don't know about.
Shannon Polson50:43
For sure. And you know, there's different ways to present information like this. And stories like this, the way that I really thought that would be helpful for people is to take the concepts and make the concepts, the lead. And then they're supported by those stories and those lessons learned. And actually all of the research that goes into supporting that well, as well, but comes from, you know, the fields of psychology and management and leadership. So it was a lot of fun and a lot of work. But I'm incredibly grateful to have it out in the world.
Amanda Huffman51:10
Did you learn anything about yourself as you went through this writing process journey?
Shannon Polson51:15
Yeah, I mean, this is my second book, my first book is called North of Hope, a daughter's Arctic journey. It's a much more personal book. It's a memoir about a trip up to the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. And it follows a trip that my father and stepmother had taken the year before, when they were killed by a grizzly bear. So it weaves those two stories together. So I've done the, the process of writing a book in the past, it's a much longer and more creative and windy journey than I expected, I think, because I had, you know, of course, been an English major in college and had written all my life and that this would just be a natural extension of that. But it really is its own journey all together. So I think I learned that I had a lot to learn. And, and continue to have a lot to learn, really, I mean, the first book was a memoir. The second book is, it's really a leadership book. It's really a solid nonfiction book. And and I had thought that that would be easier because it was a little bit less personal. But I would say that they were equally demanding in different ways.
Amanda Huffman52:15
That's so interesting. I think it's been interesting to interview all these authors. And you guys all talk about, like the humility and the learning that it takes to write a book. And especially because you wrote two books, and you said that they, they were two different genres. But then they were like, two different experiences where you continued to learn and continue to grow. So that's, that's fascinating.
Shannon Polson52:38
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. I think I've heard somebody say once that nobody expects to just pick up a violin and be able to play like, it's like Perlman, right. And nobody B, even though we've all sung to some degrees, since we were children in children's rhymes or children's songs, and maybe sing at church, nobody expects to be an opera singer. So it's a funny thing, that there, there's this tendency to think that just because you've you've written the school paper, you can necessarily just sit down and, and pop out a book. So I think it is it is absolutely an exercise in humility. But that's, that's a wonderful thing. You know, it really is, it's been a wonderful process in both cases, maddening at times, and repetitive at times and dog at times, and certainly lonely, but absolutely a learning process. And learning is something that I love.
Amanda Huffman53:24
And so what would you say the grip factor is for like, Who Who, who should read your book.
Shannon Polson53:31
You know, I wrote the Grit Factor as the book that I wish that I had had either starting out in the military, and I was, you know, I was at Duke in ROTC, Duke University, I was an English major, I did a lot of art history. And then was commissioned as a second lieutenant at the same time that I received my diploma. So I was ROTC. But then when active duty, it was one of the first women to fly the Apache helicopter and the US Army and served on three continents leading three different line units before transitioning through my MBA, went to the tech school at Dartmouth, and then served time in the corporate world as well also leading outstanding teams. And so as I approach the grip factor, I come from the military experience, you know, coming at it through ROTC, I come at it through my experience doing my MBA and spending time in the corporate world also. So really, this is for any leader who is either starting out or making a significant transition, I think, but really, it's for anybody at all, who wants to continue to develop themselves continue to, to learn new skills, and and frankly, find the camaraderie that comes from this incredible group of leaders who so generously and vulnerably share their stories. So I hate to say that it's for everyone, but I think of it as for everyone.
Amanda Huffman54:46
It's like the one thing you're not supposed to say your book is for everyone.
Shannon Polson54:50
Well, it is. And I would say it's for people who are who are facing challenges facing change, looking for the stories that will help to support them, looking for the The research that goes into what underpins those stories. And that actually gives real tactical takeaways. So if you're truly interested in coming away with motivation, inspiration and the tactic to be able to apply to a challenge or to apply to a time of change, then the grit factor is absolutely your book.
Amanda Huffman55:17
Yeah, sounds really great. And my last question is, what advice would you give to someone who's an aspiring author, and wants to either write a memoir or a book like you, where it's a compilation of stories?
Shannon Polson55:31
Yeah, approach the journey, approach it as a journey, I am, I would say, and this is what I tell people all the time, who are who have not yet written their book, there's a different set of advice for those who have written the book. But I would start to look for writing classes and writing groups, and start to do that work, write some smaller pieces, some smaller articles, or essays that are in the genre that you'd like to write and start to work on submitting those and getting those published, that will help you actually with your publishing later. But it also gets you into the habit of writing. And it also gets you into the work that needs to be done and helping to understand the work that needs to be done, which until you sit down to do it, you just don't understand. The second thing is to read and to read widely, and to read well, so I am actually almost allergic to something that is written poorly, I literally will put it down and never pick it up again. Because I know how much you were influenced by what it is that we read. So read things that are written very, very well and then really look into what makes them written Well, why are they written? Well, how is it that you can learn from that? So it's the act of both reading and writing that makes a writer and it's a much longer process than you think. So you have to enjoy the journey. But if you enjoy the journey, it's a wonderful one.
Amanda Huffman56:47
Yeah, that's really good advice. I'm currently working on my first book. And I've learned so much in my writing career of starting as a blogger and to where I am today. And it's like all that writing, I learned so much. Once my sister was like she read an article I recently wrote, and she's like, well, you actually know how to write. Yeah, I guess I've learned a few things over the years. And it's a process and it's a journey that makes a lot of sense.
Shannon Polson57:14
No, I mean, just like if you were gonna run a 10 K, you'd find a coach, you'd find a running group, right? finding those writing groups, finding those writing classes that you could do online, where you're getting that feedback, when you're doing exercises are really just incredibly valuable. So I would recommend that to anybody starting now.
Amanda Huffman57:29
Yeah, that's great advice. And I'll link to your books in the show notes so that people can find them easily. And we're gonna have Shannon on the podcast in the future. You if you listen, you probably know I'm months in advance ahead, but we'll have her on so you'll be able to check that story out later. So thank you so much for being on the podcast.
Shannon Polson57:49
Absolutely. Thank you, Amanda. Best of luck to you. I look forward to talking again,
Amanda Huffman57:53
I want to thank all my guests for being on the podcast this week. I've really enjoyed reading their books, and getting to meet them and to talk to them about writing as a fellow author. It was interesting to hear their experience of writing a book and becoming published authors. And on Thursday's episode, I wanted to mention that I'm interviewing another woman veteran author. This week, my guest will be Holly brasa and she's talking about her experience in the Navy. Her book is flawed but still worthy and talks about her experience in the Navy and her transition to civilian life. So if you want to hear another story from another woman, veteran author, make sure you come back on Thursday to hear her story. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of women of the military podcast. Do you love all things women in the military podcast become a subscriber so you never miss an episode and consider leaving a review it really helps people find the podcast and helps the podcast to grow. Are you still listening? You can be a part of the mission of telling the stories and military women by joining me on patreon@patreon.com slash women of the military or you can order my book women in the military on Amazon. Every dollar helps to continue the work I am doing. Are you a business owner? Do you want to get your product or service in front of the women of the military podcast audience get in touch with the woman or the military podcast team to learn more all the links on how you can support women in the military podcasts are located in the shownotes thanks again for listening and for your support.
book_mixdown
Wed, 1/27 10:19AM • 59:46
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
book, stories, people, military, write, women, civilians, read, memoir, writing, veteran, served, learn, started, important, sirens, talk, publisher, support, called
SPEAKERS
Erin Miller, Kathy Gallowitz, Laura Colbert, Rojan Robotham, Shannon Polson, Mari Eder, Amanda Huffman
Amanda Huffman00:00
Welcome to Episode 115 of the Women on the Military podcast. This week, I'm doing something different. And I interviewed six authors about their books. They are either women veterans, or they wrote about women veterans, and I wanted to highlight the books that they wrote, how they wrote their books, and what their books are about. So it's a little bit different this week, but I thought it would be fun to change it up and try something new. And to make it even more exciting. I actually have all these video interviews on YouTube, and you can check them out. And I'll put a link in the show notes so that you can go and find the woman of the military podcast YouTube channel. Right now I'm putting all the interviews on without video, except for this one, because I just did this one recently. And I asked all the authors if they would be willing to be on camera. And so you can now listen to him know the military podcasts on YouTube. And you can watch this video on the YouTube channel and so I'll link to it. So if you want to watch the video instead of listen to it, you can do that. And I hope you all enjoy this episode. So let's get started. You're listening to Season 3 of the Women on the Military podcast. Here you will find the real stories of female servicemembers. I'm Amanda Huffman, I am an Air Force veteran, military spouse and mom. I created women in the military podcast in 2019. As a place to share the stories of female service members past and present, with the goal of finding the heart of the story, while uncovering the triumphs and challenges women face while serving in the military. If you want to be encouraged by the stories of military women and be inspired to change the world, keep tuned for this latest episode of women on the military. My first guest is Laura Colbert. She served in the Army National Guard and deployed to Iraq in 2003. She was a guest on the woman of the military podcast in Episode 87. And I'll link to it in the description. She had one of the most popular podcast episodes for 2020. And I'm excited to talk to her a little bit more about how she wrote her book and the challenges she faced and advice she has for women today. Welcome to the podcast. Laura, I'm excited to have you on to talk about your book Sirens: How to pee standing up. So can you tell us a little bit about your book?
Laura Colbert02:37
Sure. So here it is. The original title was How to Pee Standing Up, because I had to teach myself how to pee standing up in a war zone because then when you're in an urban fighting environment, you can't just pull on your pants and go like I wouldn't be able to go in the woods. And I can't knock on somebody's door to use their bathroom because they could be the enemy. But when you get an editor or publisher, they obtain rates. And then they have the ability to change the name of book and my editor really liked the name sirens because it exemplifies military police even though we don't have sirens on our vehicle. When you think of police, you can think of sirens. Also, for any woman who served overseas, you know that if you're with a lot of men, it's almost like you have this provocative nature within you, or this power to lower the men towards you. Because you are a very low ratio of there's a very low ratio of female to males in the military. So almost like sirens and especially to the Iraqis who are not used to westernize women. And also, at the end of the book, I talked about post traumatic stress. And so there were it's like there were sirens going off in my head. So it all ties together. And there's multiple facets. But yeah, it's about my experience at war and coming back home and dealing with post traumatic stress.
Amanda Huffman03:50
Yeah, that's interesting. Because when I thought of sirens, I thought of the sirens that go off when incoming. And so when I read the book, that's, that's what I thought of. And it's interesting that there were all those different layers into it.
Laura Colbert04:04
Yeah. And I never really thought of sirens going off because I don't know if they ever did go off. We would just get a over the radio gear up type of call or get get cover. But we wouldn't really hear an incoming siren, you know, bombing rate or anything like that.
Amanda Huffman04:19
Interesting. That's interesting. Oh, so much about how like the war changes based on when you go and experiences?
Laura Colbert04:27
Yeah, we're definitely at the beginning, when before there are many things established.
Amanda Huffman04:32
So why did you decide to write a memoir about your experience in Iraq?
Laura Colbert04:38
I journaled the entire time and this is this is a journal or this is a chronological order of things that occurred, I did take out the boring bits and the monotonous parts and left the exciting things or the things that readers might want to read about. And the whole time I was there as I was journaling. I was thinking, hey, if this war turns into something, I'm going to have historic evidence of what happened. And when I got home, everybody I talked to in my experience kept urging me to write a book since I had two full books, journal books filled with memories. It's not like I was gonna grasp at straws or make stuff up, it was all there. So I slowly took those journals and made them in a digital format. And then finally, 13 years after I got home, I finally found a publisher and editor who helped guide me to the next step to get my book out almost a year and a half after we started hitting the road.
Amanda Huffman05:33
And through that process, did you learn anything about yourself? like going back through those books, especially after dealing with PTSD and reading through them on the other side of the experience? Yeah. Oh, my
Laura Colbert05:46
Gosh, so much. Well, first, I learned that I'm a horrible writer. And I had to eat a lot of humble soup. But my editor helped a lot. And I feel like I grew a lot and how I, how I use my correspondence and how I essentially write. I also, you know, you mentioned opening up those journals again, but because in oh seven, I had all put them all in digital format. I didn't open up my journals a whole lot in the writing process. But there were a few times I wanted to check my facts. And when I opened up my journals, I was just overwhelmed with that feeling of posttraumatic stress. And I couldn't believe how intoxicating that was, when I touched something like that. It had pictures of my family on it that I had put on there, when I was deployed, and like just the smell and the dirt smudges and all those things just brought back floods of emotions and memories. So that was really interesting. And then writing about my post traumatic stress. There were many, many times when I was writing and tears are just fine on my face. I felt okay writing. But though that pressure from those emotions and that sense of fear and alone, alone, loneliness, just push through.
Amanda Huffman06:57
Yeah, that's really interesting and really powerful. What do you hope people learn from reading your memoir?
Laura Colbert07:04
Well, you know, I wrote it before women were officially on or signed on to the front lines, or that my intention was to get it out there to prove that, even though we weren't supposed to be or people didn't assume we're on the front lines, we completely were, I was a military police officer training Iraqi police officers, we also were put on missions with the infantry to help break down, knock down doors and bust into homes. And I played a whole gi Jane scene in this book of me actually trying to find weapons that after they're shooting at us, and I was the woman who would or I was a soldier going through the doors yelling clear and busting the next door down and yell and clear with my pistol out my hands. And so it was just like, here's reality. It's not what a lot of you think. And also, this war in itself was not presented over media as well as certainly World War Two, definitely not as well as Vietnam. And it was almost like it was forgotten while it was going on. I mean, the Afghanistan war is still occurring. And they're still soldiers in Iraq, and we so rarely hear about any of it. Right. So I just thought it'd be really great for everybody to hear multiple other reasons. But those are the main ones.
Amanda Huffman08:14
Yeah, if you want to know more of the reasons, you have to go back and listen to your podcast episode. And I'll link to that if people want to do that do go about publishing your book.
Laura Colbert08:24
Well, I struggled a lot, I keep what I had it in that digital format. And '07, I kept trying to come back to it. But when it was just me, I was getting stuck. And I didn't know where to go. Next. I had a few friends who are English teachers are people who have written books and said, Hey, can you take a look at this, and we get, you know, 10-20 pr 30-40 pages into it. And then life will take back over again. And I give it up. So I was talking to another actually Vietnam veteran who wrote his own book, and he recommended his publisher and editor, which is where your Publishing Group. And so I reached out, and she agreed to be my editor, or publisher. And once that happened, that's when we really started moving forward. So I feel like it was fate or luck, or whatever you want to call it. But it kind of fell into my hands. I had tried to find my own editor and publisher, way back before the internet was big. Like go to the library, looking through this thick stack of puto, who does military memoirs and trying to send out a book or my, you know, cover page or whatever, and it just wasn't successful.
Amanda Huffman09:25
Yeah. And I'm in my own process of working with a publisher. And when you were talking earlier about how like, you're a bad writer, not that you're a bad writer, but you know, like, I met with the publisher, and they're like, this is great, but you also need to start over so that like humble pie, whereas like, they were like, this is great, but you also need to start over. I was like, Wait, how does that make sense? But now like I've been working with them, and they're right, like it was a great idea and a great start, but I did need to start over and I can pull stuff that I've written into it as I'm working through it. But their help has really helped. So what advice would you give to someone who is considering writing their own memoir?
Laura Colbert10:08
Well, I would definitely say do it. Because even if it doesn't go anywhere, you have this precious piece of history. And, you know, pursue, or find people who have written them too, because that helps. Because you can always get talking points, you might find another publisher through them, right, but definitely just get started. Just sit down one day and get started and take little baby steps. make little tiny goals. And before you know it, you'll be there. But certainly, I mean, you've got both of us on this on this video now that you could reach out to and say, Hey, what did you do? Where can you connect me with so and so? And that's just that's a really great first step.
Amanda Huffman10:41
Thank you so much for your time. And where can people go and get your book if they want to order besides that I'll have it linked in the show notes.
Laura Colbert10:49
Yeah, it's on. It's on Amazon and walmart.com. And in a lot of places Barnes and Noble. I am also I finished my audible version, my my audio book, and it was supposed to come out in December. But I think because I COVID and all these weird random delays. It hasn't officially come out yet, but it should be coming out an audible very soon. And it is read by me though you can definitely hear a lot of the emotion as I'm reading it throughout the book. And sometimes I offer little clips and side stories as I go.
Amanda Huffman11:22
That sounds really great. I feel like I've never listened to an audiobook. But now I want to.
Laura Colbert11:26
Well, yeah, it's it. That's what I like to do when I drive. So yeah, it was fun to make. That's awesome.
Amanda Huffman11:34
Thank you again, so much for your time and for for your writing your story to share it with all of us.
Laura Colbert11:40
Well, thanks. Thanks for having me.
Amanda Huffman11:41
My next guest is Erin Miller. She did not serve in the military. But her grandmother was a WASP. And she wrote a book about her grandmother. And it came about because when her grandmother died, she was not given permission to be buried at Arlington. And her family felt it was important to honor her legacy of service and work to get a law change so that she could be an intern at Arlington. The story is fascinating, because she includes stories from her grandmother's history as a wasp, what it was like to grow up knowing that our grandmother was a wasp, but not knowing that much about what that meant. Learning the inner workings of Congress and what it takes to get a law change. And just to hear the experience of how this event affected her family and women who've served in the military, I really enjoy getting to talk to Aaron about how the process of the book came about and what challenges she faced. So let's listen to what she had to say. Welcome to the show. Aaron, I'm excited to have you here.
Erin Miller12:54
Thanks for having me. I'm excited to see you again. Virtually.
Amanda Huffman12:57
Yeah, virtually. So I got to read your book, I guess not last year, but two years ago. And let's talk about what your book is called. And a little bit about a short summary of what the book is.
Erin Miller13:10
So my book is called final flight Final Fight my grandmother, the wasp and Arlington National Cemetery. And here is a true story about my family who fought to get a law passed in Congress so we could bury my grandmother in Arlington National Cemetery. And my grandmother had served during World War Two with the women Air Force service pilots, who were the first women to fly military planes for the United States.
Amanda Huffman13:34
And why did you decide to take your notes and your experience and make it into a book?
Erin Miller13:42
Well, during the process of lobbying Congress and doing media interviews, which is part of the story, a lot of people would say this would make a great book, this story's great, you know, things like that. And I'm like, Yeah, I would, and then I would kind of just keep going about my business. But then, after the law got passed, and things quieted down a little bit, I looked and saw all these notes and thought, yeah, I could probably write a book about all of this. And people people were interested. So you know, I thought why not try to do it. And I sat down and and wrote the book.
Amanda Huffman14:10
Yeah, I'm really glad you did, because it's a good mixture of history, along with, like, the legislative process of how to get a law passed. And like, it's, it's really fascinating. Yeah. So
Erin Miller14:25
When I was thinking about writing the book, before I had really started this draft. I went online and was looking for other books about getting laws passed, but not like from a legislator. Obviously, there are a lot of books by Senators and people like that, that work in Congress, but people like you, the average citizen going to Congress, and like what they experienced, and I didn't really find any. And then I thought, Oh, this is both kind of annoying, because I didn't have any real framework to work from but also good because, you know, it's obviously something that should be out there that, you know, I think people We'll be interested in especially the last. I mean, there's always been in this country kind of this feeling of protesting and activism and whatever. But I think it's gotten much stronger in recent years. And so I think it's important to show people that, you know, there are things concrete things you can do, like, how do you actually make change? You know, you can go out and protest and things, but how do you actually change a large change? You know, the actual structure of what you're protesting about?
Amanda Huffman15:26
Yeah, it's, it's so fascinating. And so did when you wrote it, did you hope that people would understand the legislative process and the history of the lawsuit at the same time? Or what was the purpose?
Erin Miller15:39
Yeah, so the book kind of has three kind of stories involved is my grandmother's story, and my wife with her, and then the legislative process, and then the history of the women, Air Force service pilots kind of all together and how those things interact. And I tried to make it easy enough to understand the process so that people who don't know too much about it or just learned the basics in school can can read through it and understand, like, what actually happens when you know, you need a law passed in Congress, like Who do you talk to? And then what actually happens? How do you what happens when they vote? And then, you know, that whole process and when it becomes a law, where does that go? You know, what happens? And so I was trying to include all of those things.
Amanda Huffman16:23
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I, I learned so much. I love how you put it together. It's, it's a really good book, I think I'll like juniors and seniors in high school, I had to read it to learn, like the history and like the legislative process, just because I didn't know all that stuff. It was so fascinating.
Erin Miller16:40
Yeah. And I've done talks at schools since this came out. And several schools have my book in their library. And I think it's helpful I agree to teach kids who are learning about government and history and things in school, it can be very abstract to learn about the constitution and all these things that are laid out and like, what does it actually mean for you as a person, if there's something that you don't agree with? Or needs to be fixed, or whatever, like, what actually happens? And how does it affect people personally, you know, because a lot of laws in this country are very, very broad. You know, it's not like so specific as so I think that's why this is also a good story, because it's very particular, it's like, pretty specific issue. So it's easier to follow the process. It's not like a big tax package or something. It's like, we need this to happen. This bill says this, and it will make this happen. So it's pretty easy to follow.
Amanda Huffman17:33
Yeah, that's really true. And how did you go from like writing your story to getting it published.
Erin Miller17:39
So I actually published it myself and started my own company, I sent the manuscript to some agents for poaching companies and things and I'm like, they liked it. But they kept saying things like, oh, there's like a lot of memoirs on that market and things like that, I don't know, whatever. But I was like, whatever, I'll just do it myself. And that way, I can have control over what I'm doing, and printing the books and where I go, and who I talk to, and how much I charge and keeping track of everything. And so it's it's like a it's a business. So I researched how to get all of that done. There was a lot of work, but people can do it. You know, and I already had, I knew I already had a bit of a, like a network, people were asking for it. So it's not like, I wrote a book and nobody knew about me or who I was like, we were in the newspaper, we were in all over the world. So it's like there was already kind of a market for it. So I you know, it's not like I went into it totally blind. So I think that was, you know, a good, that was all part of my thinking.
Amanda Huffman18:38
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Especially like, if you went to an agent, and they were like, No, we don't really need this. And
18:44
yeah, it was good. Nobody was like, This is horrible. don't publish this. Like, they're all like, this is really good. But I'm, you know, I'm not sure where I can sell it or whatever, you know, I'm like, fine, I'll sell it myself.
Amanda Huffman18:55
So what would you give advice if someone was considering writing a memoir or just any book? Like how to get started? Or what piece of advice would you give them?
Erin Miller19:04
So I actually, before I started writing, or as I was doing the first draft, read a lot of books that were memoirs. And like I said, I looked for books about the legislative process. And I didn't find any that were not like a congress person talking about what they had done, or like a history book, I wanted, like a personal experience book. And I didn't find any, but I read quite a few memoirs like 20 memoirs to try to get the style down of how they present their story, you know, and you can kind of see what your own style like what you like and what you don't like and kind of pick in and see how you can fit your story and the parameters that these other people present their story in. And you can say like, Oh, I think this worked, but this doesn't work. Or, you know, in my book, I do a lot of back and forth in time, because I felt like the really the inciting incident of my story is when my grandmother dies, but obviously you have to Go back, you know, 70 years to explain where we got in there and how it, you know how all of that stuff happened to why it was important that after she died, all this stuff happened. So you don't want to start back in like, 1919 when my grandma was born and go on and on, and, you know, because it's like, it doesn't work. So you need to have like the inciting incident happen. And then kind of explain from there, you know, and I've read just years ago, I've read lots of books about telling stories, and how like the Anyway, there's, there's several famous books about like telling stories and how you put stories together. So you have to kind of present the incident, and then kind of you get some background, and then you kind of build to like what your goal is. And then once you get to the goal, kind of like the day new Mall of the story, you know, like the funeral and kind of dealing with things after that. And what does it mean? Like for my grandmother and the legacy of the wost?
Amanda Huffman20:52
So did you write down outline to come up with that? Or did you just write the book,
Erin Miller20:56
I wrote in a not an outline in the sense of like writing pages, but I, I wrote out, I drew a line, an actual line on a piece of paper, and wrote the chronological things that happened, like my grandma was born, and then the wasp, and then, you know, I was born and then you know, then my grandma dies, and then the bill and the different dates during the legislation, and then the funeral. So I could keep track of like, okay, here's the chronological thing, and how do I present these different things in an interesting way. So it's not just going chronologically. So I had, I did start a couple different times trying to figure out how to present this information in the best way. And the book was much longer, and like much, you know, not as good in my opinion, because I just was like, involving everybody and talking about everything. And so my editor was like, Okay, let's cut all of these people that aren't that important out, and all this stuff, that's kind of just your memories, and whatever, that's not really integral to the story. And so it was good to have her because she could see that. And sometimes when you're writing the story, you can't see yourself some of these things. So it's good to have like a third party, to say these are things are important. And then say, like, this person came in, and I was confused about this person, and they didn't really seem to really be that important to the story. So maybe we should just not talk about them. And so it was good to have someone say that.
Amanda Huffman22:15
Yeah, yeah, that sounds like great advice. And really helpful. If someone's looking to get started, I just want to say thank you for your time. And thank you for all the work you've done to share the stories of the wasp, because they're amazing ladies, and we'll need to know about them. And so I just really thankful that you wrote this book, and we got connected and for being on the podcast today.
Erin Miller22:36
Well, I thank you for having me. And I thank you for your support of the book. And you're doing a great thing, trying to share the stories of women in the military. So I appreciate that. And I know my grandma would appreciate it too.
Amanda Huffman22:48
My next guest is Rojan Robotham. She is currently serving in the Air Force. And we actually talked about her experience in the military last year, and her episode will be going live later this month. She and I did a book exchange after we did the interview. And I gave her a copy of my book women of the military, in exchange for her book, working moms how we do it, it was really interesting to read not only about Rodin's experience of being in the military and being a mom, but also to hear the other stories that she collected, let's hear about how this book came to be and some of the challenges she faced while writing it. Hi, Rojan, I'm so excited to talk to you today. Hello. So let's talk about what is the name of your book, I can see it behind you. But what's the name of your book and tell us a little bit about it.
Rojan Robotham23:40
It's called working moms how we do it. And it is a collection of stories about active duty military women and all the services and then some civil servants and civilians who are either married or unmarried. But we all have children, and we're in the workplace. And so we're talking about how we manage our homes and our lives and our sanity.
Amanda Huffman24:01
Why did you want to write a book about working women?
Rojan Robotham24:04
So it started about a year before I wrote the book, I was having coffee at my office place with a young woman who reminded me of myself like 15 years earlier. She had just gotten married, she had married a civilian, she's active duty, her husband was not and she came to me and wanted to know how I was doing it, how I was married and have kids because she didn't think she could do it. And I sat there at lunch and I was like you can do it. We're all doing it. You know, just get up and keep going. And when I left her and I was walking down the hallway back to my office, I just realized I failed her. She wanted detail. She wanted specific she was coming from meat, and I gave her nothing. And so I committed after that to write my story about really what is it that I'm doing? I can share it better with her and then I just expanded the circle and started asking other ones Women who are successful in what they're doing with their homes and work, and asking them to share their story. And it all came together in a compilation. Now in the book.
Amanda Huffman25:10
Yeah, and I really enjoyed reading the book, because there were so many different perspectives, and so many, like commonalities, but also like minor tweaks on how people live their life differently and make it work.
Rojan Robotham25:22
That's so true. You know, we're all women, we all have kids, we kind of all have the same goals for our children, for them to grow up and be successful and not mess them up in the world, you know, and at the same time, we want to be successful at work and how we all do it is a little different. We're all striving for the same goals.
Amanda Huffman25:39
Yeah. So did you learn anything about yourself or about working women while doing the book,
Rojan Robotham25:44
I think it's kind of what we just touched upon there is that we have a lot more in common than we really think. And I also realized that we're not sharing that story. When I started talking to other women about the things they were doing, I was like, Hey, I'm doing that. And hey, I'm doing that too. And we're just not having those conversations. Somehow, we're sharing recipes. You know, we're sharing clothes or styles, but we're not really sharing the specifics on how we're running our lives. And so that's what this book tries to do is open up that conversation for women to have with each other.
Amanda Huffman26:15
That's really good. That's so important. And we we do talk about like, not things that don't matter, I guess recipes do matter. But like, really how we are better moms and like tips of success. And especially I love how you're passing it down to the next generation coming behind you. And it's cool that that was your passion, and who you wrote it for.
Rojan Robotham26:38
You know, and I also discovered that there's a lot of books, if you have a library or Google leadership and women, you'll find tons about how to be successful, how to show up how to operate at work, but no one really talks about when you come home, and you pull up that garage door and you enter into your home. Now what do you do in that part of your life? And that's what this book really tries to address or tries to, you know, open the window open the door for people to see in at least on how a group of us are doing?
Amanda Huffman27:04
Yeah. So how did you go about getting your book published?
Rojan Robotham27:08
So I you know, it's kind of like that perfect storm of things where I was thinking about doing this. And then I was actually approached by a group out of Georgetown University. It's where I did my undergrad. And so I guess I'm on the email list. And they were starting a program for alumni who also wanted to be authors. It's called like the creation of the Creator Institute. Now it's open for anyone. So if you go there, you don't have to be a Georgetown, you know, student or alumni to participate. And I thoroughly enjoyed the program. For me, it was valuable because I needed structure, I needed deadlines, I need someone to kind of commit me to making these goals, because it's too easy for me to put it last on the list or slide it or when it got hard to just stop. But they were there to kind of keep pushing, encouraging me and help me over those hurdles. And I needed that.
Amanda Huffman27:56
Yeah, that sounds like a great program. And I'll make sure to get the link from you. So I can put it down in the show notes so that people can find it. Because that sounds great. And it really ties in good with my next question, which is what advice would you give to someone who is thinking about writing their own book,
Rojan Robotham28:13
it's that it's, for me, I needed help, I needed support. I have a couple of friends who just started sitting down and writing. And that's awesome. If that's you, I don't know maybe that technical brain of mine, I spent too much time in the science field. And to get to the creative writing aspect and kind of a storytelling, I needed help. I needed someone to kind of coach me along the way and to check me into question my writing and all of that. And that's what I got out of that program.
Amanda Huffman28:42
Yeah. And I've done I think this is the fourth interview that I've done about with women, veteran authors, and they have all talked about having a resource or a coach or an editor or someone who pushed them to get the book done. And so I think having help, just like in the book we talked about, like having help building your network. It's, it ties in with writing a book too.
Rojan Robotham29:05
It totally does. It all fits in I mean, the SOAR concept from the book you can apply to you know, writing a book, you need support, you need to be organized, you need to aspire want to get it done. And they need resilience, because sometimes you just hit writer's block.
Amanda Huffman29:19
That's so true. Thank you so much for sharing about your experience writing your book, and I'll make sure to have it in the show notes so that people can go and order it. And thank you so much for being on the show.
Rojan Robotham29:31
Thanks, Amanda for having me on the show. I'm really appreciative.
Amanda Huffman29:34
My next guest is Kathy Gallowitz. She served in the Air Force as a nurse and she wrote her book beyond thank you for your service to help bridge the gap between civilian bridge the divide between civilian and military. There are many civilians who want to help and support military veterans, families and service members but they don't know how to do it. And so her book gives People resources to bridge that gap and helps the civilian community know how to help veterans and that they can help veterans. So let's hear more about how she wrote this book and some of the challenges she faced. Welcome to the show. Kathy, I'm excited to have you here. Let's start with what is the name of your book? And give me a short synopsis?
Kathy Gallowitz30:21
Hey, Amanda, thanks for having me. And all the really good work you're doing in this podcast, really proud of you. Thank you. So my book is called Beyond Thank You for Your Service, the veteran champion handbook for civilians.
Amanda Huffman30:35
And why did you write this book for civilians?
Kathy Gallowitz30:40
Well, the crowning achievement of my 29 year Air Force career was being the Director of Community Outreach for the Ohio National Guard, our team established a never been done before statewide outreach program in response to 911. To educate and engage civilians in support of troops and their families. after retirement, I established my business Vanguard veteran to continue this important work and do what I call equipping civilians to become veteran champions. So it was such a privilege to me when I was in uniform. And since I've been out of uniform, to really see firsthand how much civilians our citizenry really want to support, support those who are serving or have served and their families, but you know, they have sincere interest in wanting to do more for us, but oftentimes feel very unprepared, uncomfortable, and you know, maybe sometimes even really nervous about, you know, what to do, how to do it, and, and when, and so I really wanted to share some practical strategies and make it easy for civilians to champion the needs of veterans, servicemembers and their families so that our service members come all the way home and have a maximum quality of life. And one other point, I contend and fully believe, Amanda, that when civilians get involved, and creating mutually beneficial activities and services that everybody wins.
Amanda Huffman32:20
Yeah, I read your book, because you sent me a copy and reading it as a veteran, I was like, Oh, yeah, civilians, I can really help. There's so many civilians. And like, when we're just veteran veterans, it's like a self licking ice cream cone where we don't like expand. And so it was eye opening to read as a veteran.
Kathy Gallowitz32:42
And you know, it's just kind of the way things are, you know, typically in our, in our, in our world, women advocate for women, African Americans advocate for African Americans, veterans advocate for veterans. But you know what, no matter how much money our country has, and we don't have much, right, the Department of Defense and the VA are never going to be able to do it all to support service members, veterans and their families. And and I believe that our citizenry has an opportunity, if not an obligation to roll their sleeves up and do what they can to leverage their center of influence to leverage their passions and do more. And before we get any further, I want to say, you know, our citizens love the military, and are already doing a ton to support us. But there is yet so much more yet to be done. And I wanted to showcase some of those stories in my book so that people are like, just like you, oh, there is something different, something more that I can do. Because, you know, it's a big gap in our society that no one's really doing this important work to educate our citizenry on a reoccurring ongoing basis.
Amanda Huffman34:04
Yeah. Did you learn anything about yourself in the book writing process?
Kathy Gallowitz34:08
Yes. Frankly, I learned how hard it is to write a book. Because it just takes a lot of discipline to sit down, write, rewrite, you know, and just have the stamina because I'm a, I'm basically an extrovert, I get a lot of energy being with people I love to be out and about. And so sitting my butt in the chair to you know, and having the brain power and the discipline and the motivation to really get her done. That was the hardest part for me.
Amanda Huffman34:38
Yeah. And you talked about the writing and rewriting, and I'm working on a book right now. And I'm like, yeah, that's, you're like, I'm done. Oh, wait, I have to go back.
Kathy Gallowitz34:47
And it's hard to shut out the rest of your life. You know, taking care of your kids, your business, you know, your social life, your husband, it's just hard to put that all on pause and really focus on your message. You know, some of us are natural writers, some of us have to work a little bit harder at it. But you know what? What a feeling to get that behind you once it's done.
Amanda Huffman35:10
So how did you go about getting your book published?
Kathy Gallowitz35:12
Well, honestly, I was lucky in that I had a ghostwriter approached me and offered to support. And frankly, if she hadn't done that, and if I hadn't been committed through a contract to, you know, to help pay her for expertise, it probably would have drug on forever. We got it done in about seven months. It's about 150 pages. And so it just it created that discipline, the external discipline for me to get it done, because it's just so easy to be distracted in life.
Amanda Huffman35:42
Oh, true. That's so true. Yeah. So if you were talking to a woman veteran who is looking to write her own book, on whatever topic, what would you recommend? She does?
Kathy Gallowitz35:53
Okay, the other part of your answer I failed to tend not to mention is, you know, what did I learn about myself? Well, in my book, I don't know, you know, the first four chapters were really about my story, and why I came to understand how important veteran champions are because of my own personal struggles and journey. And so as you know, Amanda storytelling so important, and writing down what you've learned who you are, really helps you heal. And so for another woman veteran who might be willing to write the story, Oh, my gosh, our country needs so badly to hear from our woman, veterans, because we still are trailblazers, no matter what your age stage job, you know, framework, religion, you know, we're all trailblazers, we women are and have so much important to teach other women who might consider joining, but also what we bring post military service to our workforce and to our communities. So what you have to say is important, and it's worth fighting through the discipline and avoiding the distractions to get it written down, so that we can share our knowledge and our experiences to help other people grow and become everything that can be really, yeah, that's
Amanda Huffman37:18
Such great advice. I mean, I heartedly agree, since I have a podcast sharing the stories of military women. I think that the world needs to hear our stories, because there's more a forgotten group, but we've done so much. And people need to know about what we've done.
Kathy Gallowitz37:34
So and and I, you know, I'm a mother of three. And one of my biggest struggles has been, how do I feel good about myself, as the wife, a mother, and a career military officer, all three of those were equally important to me. And I really struggled over the years trying to help trying to figure out how to make that work. And the adaptability. And the leadership and the personal growth that evolves because of it is is pretty profound. But it doesn't come without a lot of self awareness, struggle and concrete commitment to growth. Yeah,
Amanda Huffman38:11
Thank you so much for your time. Can you say your book title one more time so that people know what it is?
Kathy Gallowitz38:16
I'd love to maybe you can even see it. It's called now that that was failure. It's called it's on the screen behind me beyond thank you for your service, the veteran champion handbook for civilians, it's available on Amazon. My website is Vanguard veteran.com. I would love to hear from anybody who'd like to chat more about writing a book. And what I want to say is go for it and get her done. It's important.
Amanda Huffman38:42
Yeah, and I'll have links in the show notes. So if people want to order or go to your website, they can easily and thank you again, so much for your time.
Kathy Gallowitz38:51
Thank you. And if you do read it, please do me the honor of offering a review on Amazon because that helps. Amanda, thanks for everything you're doing. Happy New Year. And I look forward to our next discussion. Take care.
Amanda Huffman39:03
My next guest is Mari Eder. She served in the Army on active duty and in the reserves and retired as a major general, her new book comes out in August, and it's called the girls who stepped out align untold stories of the women who change World War Two. And I'm really excited about this book to really be released and to hear these amazing stories, but I don't want to give away too much. So let's just dive into the interview. Welcome to the show today. Mary, I'm so excited to have you here.
Mari Eder39:32
I'm excited to be here and to talk about this a book about these amazing people.
Amanda Huffman39:36
So let's start with what is the title of your book and what is it about?
Mari Eder39:40
Well, the title of the book is The Girls Who Stepped Out of Line so let me tell you where that came from. in 2019. Alex Borstein won the Emmy for Best Supporting Actress for Mrs. Maziel. And when she accepted the award she said in World War Two my grandmother was in line to be shot into a pit and she turned to the guard and said what happens if I step out of line He said, Well, I won't shoot you that somebody probably will. So she stepped out of line. And for that I am here today and for that my children are here to death. So step out of mine, ladies step out of line. So that's where the title came.
Amanda Huffman40:12
Well, I mean, I have chill running up my spine. So I think you chose a great title.
Mari Eder40:19
So that was September of 2019. I've been thinking about writing some of these stories I kept finding. So sometimes I've been asked in the past couple of years to do speaking engagement and talk about leadership or ethics or women Heroes for either its military Women's History Month, another light kind of event. And I found a couple of these amazing stories through reading actuaries, people I've never heard of who had incredible courage and did amazing phones. So I know that sounds odd to say I started through reading obituaries, but by then I was into finding these stories and collecting them. So my agent said, Well, if you put all that together, that will be an amazing book. So all of these things came together at once my agent saying do this, the stories I've been finding, and then hearing that amazing story from Alex Borstein about your grandmother. And as I read these stories, some of them weren't that well done. But I'd have to feel like I knew these people. This isn't. These aren't old people far, far away in the past. This is yesterday. And in many ways, a lot of them did things that influence others today, and their legacy goes on. They built the path that we follow. So I wanted to talk about how they did that and what they did and what they faced and had to go through in order to do that.
Amanda Huffman41:38
And I'm sure you learned a lot about these women. And did you learn anything about yourself while you went through this process of writing and learning,
Mari Eder41:46
I learned a lot of things from them. I learned that each one of them they control their own image. So here is 98 year old Mary Baraka who's talking about what she did in terms of working with the resistance, and World War Two, and she was in Belgium. And if she wanted to tell you a part of her story, or she wanted to tell you in certain way, that was how she would tell it. So every one of them, I think, pretty well contained, and projected how they told their stories over time. Some of them didn't tell it for years. They were either in units, and if they were in the military, or they done things that were classified, and they couldn't talk about them. So they had years and decades to process how to tell this story. One of the people I actually spoke with is Betty Dennis Roberts. And she was one of the people who worked in the top secret ultra program. What she did was helped build the bomb, a machine that decoded Nazi messages, and then Japanese coded messages as well. Their program was so classified and compartmented. She didn't know for 30 years afterwards what exactly she built. She'd never seen it in total, and seen it work until she went to the NSA National cryptologic Museum in 2017. I think, for our reunion to actually see what she had done. So she said nobody asked her her husband didn't ask her what she did in the war. He knew that she was in the Navy, she was away. her kids never asked her and she said, I never told anybody because I didn't ask
Amanda Huffman43:19
I really resonates with when I did a deployment series in 2017. And I interviewed women and I asked what would people say when they find out you deployed and so many women were like, well, no one knows. So no one asked and I was just like,
Mari Eder43:35
Or they don't know what it means. Certainly one of the one of the women I did a story about is is Katie Nolan. Kate was a nurse. She wanted to be a air medic nurse. But that program was full. And we all know what that's like, well, I want to do this. Well, I'm sorry. It's not available, right. So she became a nurse in a heavy casualty field hospital where they moved every 10 days. And we're right behind the infantry and armor units going forward. She earned five battlestars. She went from Normandy, all the way through the Battle of the Bulge to the end of the war. So reading her experiences, and you could tell some of them were written by people who didn't quite know what some of these things meant. So she was talking about the corpsman in her unit Corp s ma n, medical corpsman, and I'm reading this article about her and it's called a CR e ma n. And you could tell they didn't quite know what corps he was after, or was doing. So having military understanding and background helps you look at a story and go oh my because you understand how deeply impressive it is. So for people who would say well, she wasn't in combat, they were less than a mile behind the frontlines. Her unit was shelled, they were bombed. They watched the Nazi convoys go by, they had to roll patients out of cots and lay on top of them during the shelling. So they did had to do some pretty tough things. They never got to spend much time with these People, they were only with them a few days before they were moved to the rear, and then their unit would pack up and move again. And like everything else, what you learned in school about how to set up these tents doesn't apply in the real world.
Amanda Huffman45:11
Yeah, these are amazing stories. And I'm so glad that you wrote this book. And it's actually not released yet. Right? It's coming out later this year.
Mari Eder45:20
It'll be coming out this summer. Actually, I think it will be released on August the third. But just a few weeks ago, I got to see the galleys for the book. So I've seen how it looks with pictures. And that was that was a great present for the holidays. It really was.
Amanda Huffman45:35
Yeah, that sounds awesome. So how did you go about you mentioned that you had an agent? How did you get connected with an agent? And what is that process been like?
Mari Eder45:45
This process is kind of a long term one, you have to really, it's another world entirely for me coming out of the military to learn how to get into writing in a different way. Although I think I know how to write I quickly found out I needed a little bit of a return to some of the basics in terms of grammar and structure. And all of those things we tried to forget from high school. So I worked on learning the bakery, learning the basics, learning the structure, looking at the business world that is publishing, because it is a very different process. And it has very different timelines, they take very long breaks at the holidays. So if you think you're going to be able to talk to an agent, and perhaps write a pitch letter, it's not going to go that easily or that well, and it will take time, I went to several writers conferences where they have classes, and here's your best first page. Here's how to write your pitch, how to structure your story, how to build character, and there are several websites that teach a lot of these things and how to do it. So I've been to at least a couple of conferences going okay, now, I think I understand it. And they do bring in agents to some of these conferences, the one I went was in New York, and it's for writers of thriller and mystery books, which is what I wanted to do. So you get to go in the room where there are agents, there's 20 or so of them. And they all have egg timers, and you have two minutes to sell yourself and sell your book. So if you don't have that what we call an elevator pitch, they, here's what it's all about. And here's why you're going to love it. And here's why it's different, unique, but not too different not to you like it's not different than they don't want to.
Amanda Huffman47:18
Yeah, it sounds like so one of the things that I have found interesting and talking to all of you authors is that there's a lot of humbleness that goes into it and a lot of learning something that you thought you already knew, like you said, I thought I knew how to write. And then I learned to go back to the basics and all this learning and growing and the process of time. And so I thought that was really interesting that all the authors have that humbleness, and that learning to start over in whatever process they're in.
Mari Eder47:49
And I have certainly met people who are not willing to learn for ready to do that. So they're surprised when the system doesn't seem to work.
Amanda Huffman47:56
Yeah, I've had the same experience. So I understand. So what advice would you give to someone who's listening? Who does want to become an author? What would you say is the first step that they need to take?
Mari Eder48:07
I think it is to write every day you write your thoughts. You write a journal, you write a story, you have an idea, you write all of it down and you keep it sometimes we all have our brains work in different ways. No, I'm the editor in the morning, I can fix things and make them more organized, and the creative person in the afternoon. So I can write something in the afternoon. And the next morning, the other side of the brain will come in and fix it. So I think it's learning your process and what works for you. But it's never stopping working at it, and enjoying it when you do it.
Amanda Huffman48:37
That's such great advice. That's such great advice. I really love it. Thank you so much for being on the podcast and for sharing about your book. And I'll make sure to link to it in the show notes so that people can find it. And just thank you so much.
Mari Eder48:51
Awesome. Thank you.
Amanda Huffman48:52
And my last guest is Shannon Polson, she served in the army and was one of the first women to be an Apache helicopter pilot. And her book, the Grit Factor helps organizations and people overcome resistance and lead with authenticity. I really enjoyed this interview, because we talked about not only Grit Factor, but her first book North of Hope, which was a memoir. And so it was interesting to hear the reflection of an author who's not only wrote a memoir, but wrote the grip factor, which is a leadership type book, and totally different than a memoir style book. So I'm excited to share this interview with you. So let's dive right in. Hi, Shannon. I'm excited to have you here.
Shannon Polson49:36
Thanks. It's great to be with you.
Amanda Huffman49:39
So let's start with what is the name of your book and tell us a little bit about it.
Shannon Polson49:44
Sure, yeah, The Grit Factor and the subtitle is courage, resilience and leadership in the most male dominated organization in the world, came out from Harvard Business Review press in September of 2020. And it really is a not just a compilation but actually synthesis of stories, lessons learned and tactical takeaways from leaders in the Vanguard's of their fields. They happen to be women, and they happen to be military. But it's the net result of a three year project of interviewing lots of women across the services across generations from World War Two to the present, and really taking this benefit of these incredibly generously shared stories, and lessons learned to be able to pass on to others.
Amanda Huffman50:27
That sounds amazing. And Mary Eder was the interview before yours, and hers is like, similar, but different. And it's just so cool the different stories you get to hear of women that so many people don't know about.
Shannon Polson50:43
For sure. And you know, there's different ways to present information like this. And stories like this, the way that I really thought that would be helpful for people is to take the concepts and make the concepts, the lead. And then they're supported by those stories and those lessons learned. And actually all of the research that goes into supporting that well, as well, but comes from, you know, the fields of psychology and management and leadership. So it was a lot of fun and a lot of work. But I'm incredibly grateful to have it out in the world.
Amanda Huffman51:10
Did you learn anything about yourself as you went through this writing process journey?
Shannon Polson51:15
Yeah, I mean, this is my second book, my first book is called North of Hope, a daughter's Arctic journey. It's a much more personal book. It's a memoir about a trip up to the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. And it follows a trip that my father and stepmother had taken the year before, when they were killed by a grizzly bear. So it weaves those two stories together. So I've done the, the process of writing a book in the past, it's a much longer and more creative and windy journey than I expected, I think, because I had, you know, of course, been an English major in college and had written all my life and that this would just be a natural extension of that. But it really is its own journey all together. So I think I learned that I had a lot to learn. And, and continue to have a lot to learn, really, I mean, the first book was a memoir. The second book is, it's really a leadership book. It's really a solid nonfiction book. And and I had thought that that would be easier because it was a little bit less personal. But I would say that they were equally demanding in different ways.
Amanda Huffman52:15
That's so interesting. I think it's been interesting to interview all these authors. And you guys all talk about, like the humility and the learning that it takes to write a book. And especially because you wrote two books, and you said that they, they were two different genres. But then they were like, two different experiences where you continued to learn and continue to grow. So that's, that's fascinating.
Shannon Polson52:38
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting. I think I've heard somebody say once that nobody expects to just pick up a violin and be able to play like, it's like Perlman, right. And nobody B, even though we've all sung to some degrees, since we were children in children's rhymes or children's songs, and maybe sing at church, nobody expects to be an opera singer. So it's a funny thing, that there, there's this tendency to think that just because you've you've written the school paper, you can necessarily just sit down and, and pop out a book. So I think it is it is absolutely an exercise in humility. But that's, that's a wonderful thing. You know, it really is, it's been a wonderful process in both cases, maddening at times, and repetitive at times and dog at times, and certainly lonely, but absolutely a learning process. And learning is something that I love.
Amanda Huffman53:24
And so what would you say the grip factor is for like, Who Who, who should read your book.
Shannon Polson53:31
You know, I wrote the Grit Factor as the book that I wish that I had had either starting out in the military, and I was, you know, I was at Duke in ROTC, Duke University, I was an English major, I did a lot of art history. And then was commissioned as a second lieutenant at the same time that I received my diploma. So I was ROTC. But then when active duty, it was one of the first women to fly the Apache helicopter and the US Army and served on three continents leading three different line units before transitioning through my MBA, went to the tech school at Dartmouth, and then served time in the corporate world as well also leading outstanding teams. And so as I approach the grip factor, I come from the military experience, you know, coming at it through ROTC, I come at it through my experience doing my MBA and spending time in the corporate world also. So really, this is for any leader who is either starting out or making a significant transition, I think, but really, it's for anybody at all, who wants to continue to develop themselves continue to, to learn new skills, and and frankly, find the camaraderie that comes from this incredible group of leaders who so generously and vulnerably share their stories. So I hate to say that it's for everyone, but I think of it as for everyone.
Amanda Huffman54:46
It's like the one thing you're not supposed to say your book is for everyone.
Shannon Polson54:50
Well, it is. And I would say it's for people who are who are facing challenges facing change, looking for the stories that will help to support them, looking for the The research that goes into what underpins those stories. And that actually gives real tactical takeaways. So if you're truly interested in coming away with motivation, inspiration and the tactic to be able to apply to a challenge or to apply to a time of change, then the grit factor is absolutely your book.
Amanda Huffman55:17
Yeah, sounds really great. And my last question is, what advice would you give to someone who's an aspiring author, and wants to either write a memoir or a book like you, where it's a compilation of stories?
Shannon Polson55:31
Yeah, approach the journey, approach it as a journey, I am, I would say, and this is what I tell people all the time, who are who have not yet written their book, there's a different set of advice for those who have written the book. But I would start to look for writing classes and writing groups, and start to do that work, write some smaller pieces, some smaller articles, or essays that are in the genre that you'd like to write and start to work on submitting those and getting those published, that will help you actually with your publishing later. But it also gets you into the habit of writing. And it also gets you into the work that needs to be done and helping to understand the work that needs to be done, which until you sit down to do it, you just don't understand. The second thing is to read and to read widely, and to read well, so I am actually almost allergic to something that is written poorly, I literally will put it down and never pick it up again. Because I know how much you were influenced by what it is that we read. So read things that are written very, very well and then really look into what makes them written Well, why are they written? Well, how is it that you can learn from that? So it's the act of both reading and writing that makes a writer and it's a much longer process than you think. So you have to enjoy the journey. But if you enjoy the journey, it's a wonderful one.
Amanda Huffman56:47
Yeah, that's really good advice. I'm currently working on my first book. And I've learned so much in my writing career of starting as a blogger and to where I am today. And it's like all that writing, I learned so much. Once my sister was like she read an article I recently wrote, and she's like, well, you actually know how to write. Yeah, I guess I've learned a few things over the years. And it's a process and it's a journey that makes a lot of sense.
Shannon Polson57:14
No, I mean, just like if you were gonna run a 10 K, you'd find a coach, you'd find a running group, right? finding those writing groups, finding those writing classes that you could do online, where you're getting that feedback, when you're doing exercises are really just incredibly valuable. So I would recommend that to anybody starting now.
Amanda Huffman57:29
Yeah, that's great advice. And I'll link to your books in the show notes so that people can find them easily. And we're gonna have Shannon on the podcast in the future. You if you listen, you probably know I'm months in advance ahead, but we'll have her on so you'll be able to check that story out later. So thank you so much for being on the podcast.
Shannon Polson57:49
Absolutely. Thank you, Amanda. Best of luck to you. I look forward to talking again,
Amanda Huffman57:53
I want to thank all my guests for being on the podcast this week. I've really enjoyed reading their books, and getting to meet them and to talk to them about writing as a fellow author. It was interesting to hear their experience of writing a book and becoming published authors. And on Thursday's episode, I wanted to mention that I'm interviewing another woman veteran author. This week, my guest will be Holly brasa and she's talking about her experience in the Navy. Her book is flawed but still worthy and talks about her experience in the Navy and her transition to civilian life. So if you want to hear another story from another woman, veteran author, make sure you come back on Thursday to hear her story. Thank you for listening to this week's episode of women of the military podcast. Do you love all things women in the military podcast become a subscriber so you never miss an episode and consider leaving a review it really helps people find the podcast and helps the podcast to grow. Are you still listening? You can be a part of the mission of telling the stories and military women by joining me on patreon@patreon.com slash women of the military or you can order my book women in the military on Amazon. Every dollar helps to continue the work I am doing. Are you a business owner? Do you want to get your product or service in front of the women of the military podcast audience get in touch with the woman or the military podcast team to learn more all the links on how you can support women in the military podcasts are located in the shownotes thanks again for listening and for your support.